Why?!?!

  1. RobIsaacson Member

    Messages:
    62
    Northamptonshire
    Why can I go out at lunchtime and lay the best weld I've ever seen..... and then go out early evening and lay the most cr*ppest weld with no penetration?
    Still playing with scrap pieces as I daren't start on the chassis until I can weld consistently.
    Aaarggghhhh:(
    Rob
     
  2. malcolm

    malcolm & Clementine the Cat

    Messages:
    9,129
    Location:
    Bedford UK
    Annoying is't it.

    Pop over with your welder if you need a hand - we aren't so far away.
     
  3. RobIsaacson Member

    Messages:
    62
    Northamptonshire
    I have a thought, it may be bizarre but I'm getting desperate here...
    The garage is spurred off the downstairs ring main, what impact will drawing 100amps have on this circuit?
    At lunchtime when things were going well, there were no other electrical appliances in the house on whereas this evening, the missus had the oven on cooking dinner with all the lights on etc.
    Would this affect the amps drawn as I appear to have no penetration.
    Another question might be... How many amps can the average ring circuit handle?
    I am very much more mechanical than electrical so this theory may sound ridiculous to some but to me it kind of makes sense. Besides which, if you don't know the answer then there's no such thing as a stupid question.
    Another point to note is that the lights in the house flicker when I'm practicing.
    Anybody got any thoughts on this
    Many thanks
    Rob
     
  4. malcolm

    malcolm & Clementine the Cat

    Messages:
    9,129
    Location:
    Bedford UK
    The cooker will be on a dedicated circuit from the fusebox. But I like the idea of a wife doing cooking. Going to have to get myself one of those.*

    The downstairs ring main is going to cover sockets only and will probably have a 30amp fuse at the fusebox. While it's a bit naughty to pull the garage supply off there it isn't going to restrict the supply to the welder.

    Welder amps are different from normal amps as welders operate at a lower voltage (hence the great big transformer inside the welder). With a 110 amp welder set for maximum you'll probably be drawing about 8 amps at 240 volts.

    I think flickering lights are due to inductance (although I'm getting sketchy on electricity myself here). With a welder the electricity is very much stop start - it goes well, an crackles lovely, then the torch moves on an hits a different resistance, takes more power, melts the metal, takes less power....etc. And there's the great big transformer already mentioned that's full of electromagnetism busily pushing electricity one way, then the other way to cope with all this unevenness.

    *Found a cooker in the kitchen - where did that come from?
     
  5. RobIsaacson Member

    Messages:
    62
    Northamptonshire
    Thanks for the offer Malcolm, it's just so frustrating being so near and yet so far. One minute welding like a god, the next like an a*se.
    Perhaps a dumb comment earlier, of course the cooker has it's own supply from the box, I guess I wasn't thinking.
    I tested this evenings welds in the vice and most of them will not break (2 against 6 anyway) so they can't be that bad, they just don't look as good as the earlier ones.
    I think it may be something to do with the angle of the groove and the distance between the butts.
    I shall continue practicing tomorrow and one day..... one day!
    Regards to all
    Rob
     
  6. Hitch

    Hitch Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,316
    Somerset
    Practise makes perfect Rob!! There are many factors, that may be different, have a look at the angle your holding the torch each time. The prep and root gap as you say will make each one differ. Once you become better you will be able to see the difference as you are welding, and adjust speeds and angles accordingly. Practice is the key!
     
  7. sclurgess Member

    Messages:
    49
    northants
    "off topic" what chassis is it your going to be welding??
     
  8. RobIsaacson Member

    Messages:
    62
    Northamptonshire
    Hi All
    The chassis is a TR6 but that is still a long way off.
    Malcolm, do you offer lessons, I think I'm interested?
    Still no better tonight, the welds yesterday lunchtime really looked professional and are impossible to break with excellent penetration however since then it's lumpy, stringy, blobby, with no penetration whatsoever.
    I have tried altering the gas, the wire feed, the angle, the closeness, my speed, the distance between pieces, a new tip and still I can pull the joint apart with two mole grips and very little effort.
    To check it's definitely me, is there a test I can do to check the equipment? The equipment makes all the right noises but no penetration. I have tried to blow holes in the material but cannot, should this be possible?
    Answers on a postcard to the usual address.
    Sorry, I'm just fed-up and deflated.... but I've not given up yet.
    Lol
    Rob
     
  9. malcolm

    malcolm & Clementine the Cat

    Messages:
    9,129
    Location:
    Bedford UK
    You are welcome to pop over with the welder at the weekend for some pointers. I'll send a PM with my details (possibly tomorrow - the email system is playing up tonight). I'm keen to try out a gasless welder with all the talk on the forum recently about the differences between gasless and gas.
     
  10. Hitch

    Hitch Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,316
    Somerset
    Check the earth is attached properly....

    Are you welding on the same piece of material and getting different results?

    Make sure you havnt picked up a piece of aluminium by mistake. As stupid as it sounds, i have seen people do it!
     
  11. RobIsaacson Member

    Messages:
    62
    Northamptonshire
    Thanks guys.
    Yep, I checked the earth as well, gave it a little filing to be sure.
    Same material, different results. I cut a piece of 2mm mild steel about 2-3 inches wide and then cut this into 1inch sections and then try to weld it back together again. Just practicing again and again and again....
    I cannot get penetration. Moving slowly gives a thick heavy bead and moving quickly I get a thin stringy bead with breaks. Very close gives a nice crackle and moving away it spatters everywhere.
    You can perhaps understand my frustration but it's just not happening. I thought I'd cracked it yesterday and proudly took my piece of metal to show the missus in the kitchen, she was not quite as enthusiastic as me at the time but that's women I guess. lol
    Tomorrow's another day!
    Rob

    p.s. sorry Malcolm but it's not gasless, i'm using Co2 in small disposable bottles.
     
  12. malcolm

    malcolm & Clementine the Cat

    Messages:
    9,129
    Location:
    Bedford UK
    Gasless is a shame, hoping to try that. Never mind. Did you mention somewhere it was a 110amp welder? Was it originally set up for gasless? That would make for a negative torch which is supposed to direct more heat into melting the wire than the metal. Possibly the polarity of the welder can be changed over if this is the case.

    2mm sounds pretty thick for 110 amps. How does it perform on thinner stuff?

    You are still most welcome to pop over - might be a Jaguar race car in the garage tomorrow to practice on :D . Did you get the private message?
     
  13. Hitch

    Hitch Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,316
    Somerset
    Try inclining the metal upwards a bit, say 15 degrees or so and weld upwards.

    The bead may look slightly rounder on top, but you should get a bit more penetration.
     
  14. RobIsaacson Member

    Messages:
    62
    Northamptonshire
    Will be welding a couple of strengthening pieces into the chassis today to bring it square again. It would appear that the weak section has allowed the rear end to twist, not far so should be able to pull it back.
    Gives me a chance to practice the welding again today.
    I did experiment a little yesterday and something around a 15 degree chamfer in the butting joints gives a good join.
    It's just practice, practice, practice.
    Regards
    Rob
     
  15. vwjaz Member

    Messages:
    38
    Do you travel to folks too ;) Be class to have someone running through some techniques....anyway I got side tracked there



    Yep exactly the same, so frustrating when at one point think have the jist of it only for the next time to go pear shaped, I will only believe I can weld okay when I can go each time and think yes thats what I wanted...am I being to ambitious? :o

    Good luck Rob :cool:
     
  16. RobIsaacson Member

    Messages:
    62
    Northamptonshire
    All sorted.
    My thanks to Malcolm for looking at my equipment (ooer) for me. As a newbie you know something is wrong 'cos you're welding like an **** but you don't know what!
    Faulty gas valve coupled with too high wire feed.
    Manual states wire speed as 5, gives excellent results at 1-2.
    Rule is... ignore the manual as it tells lies, do what feels right.
    Looking forward to many a happy hour welding!
    Regards to all
    Rob
     
  17. malcolm

    malcolm & Clementine the Cat

    Messages:
    9,129
    Location:
    Bedford UK
    It was good to meet up with you at the weekend Rob.

    Turns out Rob's welding technique was fine. As soon as we set up the welder and fixed the broken gas regulator he made some really neat welds.

    Keep us posted with progress on the TR6.

    vwjaz - I don't travel. Driving around seems to break my car. But you are welcome to pop over to Bedford with your welder. I can have a play with it which will go towards my review of 101 different welders for the website (I'm up to 3 so far).
     
  18. RobIsaacson Member

    Messages:
    62
    Northamptonshire
    Can anybody offer a place to put my website that's free?
    I tried on AOL but it's such a ball-ache and I'd rather construct it offline and then upload it somewhere.
    New to this kind of thing as well so all help gratefully received.
    Regards
    Rob
     
  19. vwjaz Member

    Messages:
    38
    Oh Malcolm, thats such a generous offer, I will try and take you up on that at some point, Thanks :cool:

    Rob, it sounds brill, bet your relieved to find some answers to your problems that you were experiencing...be honest everytime I try 1-2 I usually just get little droplets that definately haven't welded to anything, but after reading your experience I'm going to try again with it :D Sorry don't know of any free hosting sites, I'm not that computer savvie to be honest :(
     
  20. Hitch

    Hitch Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    12,316
    Somerset
    Even if you have two identical machines, same wire, same gas, sometimes they will need different wire speed settings.
     
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