Why you don’t wear gloves with rotating machinery

[slim_boy_fat]

Just found the video of the brain dead students.
It could have been a lot worse.

Looks like the cross-slide auto feed is engaged, maybe it was triggered by the Numpty as he 'vaulted' over the lathe? That would have mangled his ankle/leg nicely too.....

 

[addjunkie]

The main point is that because everyone on the tools has different levels of competence and risk-awareness you can't leave it up to the individual to decide what's safe and what isn't. You can TELL people what's safe and what isn't but when that person decides that they know better/couldn't give a damn/doesn't like you so deliberately does the opposite/comes into work ****** etc and tears a limb off how are you going to prove you did that except for play a game of he said/she said.

That's the basis of H&S law and your defence to it - proving that you did what you were supposed to do and told people how to do their job safely. The only way of doing that is to have it written down.

Ibstock had no defence. Using emery on a lathe is a well-known hazard as is loose clothing and long hair. Many people killed or maimed and plenty of video examples on the net. If it's one of those things that 'everyone knows' then then there's no excuse for not considering it in a risk assessment.

I suspect the machine wasn't as guarded as it should have been.

it all needs to be written down and proof all have been instructed and understood what it said. Even so it is impossible to legislate for stupidity.

 

[Nick DV]

It happened right next to the poultry farm ......

Egg and chips then ................................

 

[Nick DV]

I have kit on my site that would suck you in, chew you up and force you down a 3" hose in the blink of an eye.

Has anyone got a useless apprentice to test this out.............?

 

[Parm]

Egg and chips then ................................

Shame it wasnt near a bakery or else there could have been breaded chicken

 

[bricol]

I watched him drive a plasterboard rawl plug into the wall whilst the impact driver was in reverse earlier the kid is beyond help

Has he been shown how to use it? Did you stop him this time and tell him?

Or do you keep on just watching him fail? Where will you draw the line at just watching? When he gets hurt? Someone else gets hurt? When you get hurt?

 

[Kram]

Either the guy was not trained or qualified to use the lathe - then the fine is fair, or he was negligent. There should not be procedures and risk assesments for things that are part of basic training.

6061 has a video on gloves I agree with.

 

[Pete.]

There should not be procedures and risk assesments for things that are part of basic training.

The law says different. Every activity neeed to be risk-assessed if there's a for forseeable risk of injury.

 

[GRW]

I know two people in the pto club. Neighbours daughter’s boyfriend running a potato or something mangle, unguarded pto, caught his overalls, pulled him in. He went round a few times before someone stopped it. Survived with multiple fractures and a changed personality. Speaking to him about it, he reckoned he could hear (as well as feel) his bones breaking.
Alastair Dent, local pub landlord (and Midget/ Cooper 500 racer), when he was younger, leant off the back of the tractor to adjust the linkage, jumper caught, pulled him out of the seat. Made a mess of him, but he survived.
Lastly, one guy up the road, pto to the slurry tanker caught his jumper, ripped his arm off and threw it into the slurry pit....

You must be not that from where I live MM, because while I barely know AD (don't at all really expect for a couple of brushes as a very young man some 35 years ish ago) - I know his brother reasonably well.
Farms are risky places. I think on the same farm Peter Dent's youg son got his foot crushed in a quick hitch. The lad saw his dad start to drive off, and ran and jumped onto the back of the tractor link arms for a "fun" ride. His foot was on the QH pickup hook & unaware his boy was there, Peter raised the hydraulics as he drove off

 

[Bornfree]

It’s always Emery cloth, every time.

I broke my thumb at school with emery cloth on the lathe. I was holding it one handed put my thumb on the top to get more pressure and it grabbed. I got a proper bollocking from the metalwork teacher and had to try and hold my pen in my fingers for the remaining lessons. My father took me to hospital after tea. Different times, I would hate to think what would happen nowadays.

 

[stuvy]

Has he been shown how to use it? Did you stop him this time and tell him?

Or do you keep on just watching him fail? Where will you draw the line at just watching? When he gets hurt? Someone else gets hurt? When you get hurt?

He’s read the SOP, been shown 4 times from two different people yet still manages to be either a bull in a China shop or knows it all

Mechanical engineering is for some people just not this kid

 

[MCKDAVID]

He’s read the SOP, been shown 4 times from two different people yet still manages to be either a bull in a China shop or knows it all

Mechanical engineering is for some people just not this kid

agreed, some folk are not cut out for practical works, irrespective of the trade. Everyone has their place, but some will never grasp it despite constant assistance and explanations.......patience runs out pretty quickly, especially if you've to repeat the same thing every time. At the end of the day you can only spoon feed them so much, especially if they're a danger to themselves or others, sometimes the only solution is out the door, probably better for them too, they might find their real talent somewhere else......

 

[lchris21]

It's hard to do a proper risk assessment on a lathe and allow the use of hand held emery at all.

I did an inspection at a local manufacturers this year, part of the inspection was in the toolroom. When I got there I noticed none of the toolmakers were actually busy When I asked, apparently they've been sitting around for 8-months just sending work out to local machine shops as the H&S manager banned them using the machine tools............. You couldn't make it up. Just hand tools and a battery drill was they were allowed to use. (having met the H&S manager as part of my site induction I could see why....what a plonker!)

 

[Parm]

I did an inspection at a local manufacturers this year, part of the inspection was in the toolroom. When I got there I noticed none of the toolmakers were actually busy When I asked, apparently they've been sitting around for 8-months just sending work out to local machine shops as the H&S manager banned them using the machine tools............. You couldn't make it up. Just hand tools and a battery drill was they were allowed to use. (having met the H&S manager as part of my site induction I could see why....what a plonker!)

Proper clip board elf n safety

 

[bricol]

He’s read the SOP, been shown 4 times from two different people yet still manages to be either a bull in a China shop or knows it all

Mechanical engineering is for some people just not this kid

Then someone needs to take some responsibility and suggest an alternative career.

We've had a few who simply weren't cut out for engineering and have been let go - and a few of those have gone elsewhere into other industries and done really well.

 

[stuvy]

Then someone needs to take some responsibility and suggest an alternative career.

We've had a few who simply weren't cut out for engineering and have been let go - and a few of those have gone elsewhere into other industries and done really well.

I had a meeting about him on Friday and we’re going to try a personal improvement plan. If he doesn’t improve then it’s his loss as the company has a lot to offer the right person

 

[Munkul]

Then someone needs to take some responsibility and suggest an alternative career.

We've had a few who simply weren't cut out for engineering and have been let go - and a few of those have gone elsewhere into other industries and done really well.

yeah we've seen a few of those over the years as well.

 

[minimutly]

I broke my thumb at school with emery cloth on the lathe. I was holding it one handed put my thumb on the top to get more pressure and it grabbed. I got a proper bollocking from the metalwork teacher and had to try and hold my pen in my fingers for the remaining lessons. My father took me to hospital after tea. Different times, I would hate to think what would happen nowadays.

Btdt, bastard on the thumbnail...

 

[MetalMonkey]

There is/was a CCTV recording doing the rounds recently – showing an unfortunate Russian chap being pulled into a large lathe by his coat. If you’ve seen it, you know the one I’m talking about.
Absolutely not suitable for here, and very strong stomachs only (he didn't make it) – but it certainly highlights, graphically, how quickly these things can go wrong and why these machines need treating with respect.

In some ways it is a shame society wraps everybody in cotton wool and hides them away from these incidents – I suspect some exposure would probably make far more of a lasting impression than then thousand risk assessments.

Reading between the lines of the article in the original post, it seems to suggests that the main “failing” was not having the right paperwork once again.
If they were an inexperienced apprentice let loose without supervision, then the company deserves all it gets - but if they were experienced in operating a lathe they really should have known better, irrespective of what is or isn’t written on a risk assessment.

 

[Munkul]

Reading between the lines of the article in the original post, it seems to suggests that the main “failing” was not having the right paperwork once again.
If they were an inexperienced apprentice let loose without supervision, then the company deserves all it gets - but if they were experienced in operating a lathe they really should have known better, irrespective of what is or isn’t written on a risk assessment.

If they had all the correct and reasonable controls and all they lacked was a suitable RA/procedure, then I highly doubt they would have been slapped with a half mill fine.

There are 3 things things we know for a fact:
- emery paper is used by lots of manual machinists on lathes to compensate for worn tooling, for creeping up on a fit, to compensate for poor cutting, etc.
- emery paper held by hand on a lathe is dangerous, well documented over the years, and should not be allowed by any company large enough to have dedicated H&S staff.
- This accident occurred in a large company