Why you don’t wear gloves with rotating machinery

[Dcal]

Just found the video of the brain dead students.
It could have been a lot worse.

 

[MCKDAVID]

Probably not only the fines but the realisation that rotating machinery is actually dangerous. To be honest if I was headmaster I don’t think I would have a lathe anywhere near my school, I’m sure that sounds very nanny state but when you see things like this then you can maybe have a bit of sympathy for them?

What happened 30 years ago and was ok then isn’t really acceptable now. Could you imagine the uproar if this happened to a 14-15 year old kid in a classroom? You can say there’s a loss of skills but I’ll be honest I never touched a lathe/milling machine until my apprenticeship and while I’m certainly no machinist i don’t think it exactly hampered me during my training.

Now colleges, where you have more mature (maybe debatable?) students and possibly more supervision is a different matter.

it's a difficult one, you don't want to knowingly put anyone in danger, child or otherwise, but at the same time we're running out of cotton wool to wrap everything in? which is worse, making everyone scared of anything that has a danger to it, or educating them correctly so they have a healthy respect for it and can evaluate for themselves the potential dangers, because at some point everything can become dangerous.... You can only create so many procedures and signs etc, at somepoint they'll be left un chaperoned, I'd prefer someone who's aware that they're dangerous, but have to be used correctly...

No way would I say the old ways were better, far from it, but we're supposedly an intelligent race and capable of learning from errors, yet we default to stopping everything, because it's easier... I'm more for the education side than the avoiding everything, but agreed there's some that should never be allowed anywhere near anything dangerous ever... the difficulty is finding that line of what's enough, and what's too much.... your idea of mature is good, but how do you define that, age? mental ability? It's different in everyone, left to the judgement of the teacher / instructor etc, could be a good option, but what about the rest, sorry mate you're just not up to it yet, come back next year?..... not so easy to define, or put in place...

Sadly there is no answer, your damned if you do, and damned if you don't, but if you stop them doing everything that's ok, because they're safe? your right I'm sympathetic to the education syystem, they get crapped on from all sides, but if the default answer is where's the cotton wool again, I can't see how we'll ever move forward.........
Again, stopping everything and procedures etc, don't seem to work either, there's still accidents....maybe less, but any is too many, so what's the answer???

difficult one indeed.....

 

[pressbrake1]

That is incompatible with health and safety law, the operator has a duty to protect themselves and others but it is not in isolation, the boss/manager/owner cannot have their responsibility removed because the operator signs a piece of paper

But how do you stop someone being silly

 

[Kayos]

But how do you stop someone being silly

Training, education, disciplinary action then ultimately dismissal

 

[Lewis_RX8]

difficult one indeed.....

All about balance, Not going to go back to children crawling around working looms getting amputated regularly but the safest way to work is not do anything and therefore eliminate all hazards.

But like you say where do you draw the line in-between there , I think the HSE term that comes up a lot is " As far as reasonably practical"

 

[pressbrake1]

Training, education, disciplinary action then ultimately dismissal

Not that easy
Blame culture thinks that

 

[Kayos]

Not that easy
Blame culture thinks that

Come work on one of my sites, follow the rules, listen to the induction.

Everyone is given a chance but disregard the rules and you are off site

 

[daleyd]

it's a difficult one, you don't want to knowingly put anyone in danger, child or otherwise, but at the same time we're running out of cotton wool to wrap everything in? which is worse, making everyone scared of anything that has a danger to it, or educating them correctly so they have a healthy respect for it and can evaluate for themselves the potential dangers, because at some point everything can become dangerous.... You can only create so many procedures and signs etc, at somepoint they'll be left un chaperoned, I'd prefer someone who's aware that they're dangerous, but have to be used correctly...

No way would I say the old ways were better, far from it, but we're supposedly an intelligent race and capable of learning from errors, yet we default to stopping everything, because it's easier... I'm more for the education side than the avoiding everything, but agreed there's some that should never be allowed anywhere near anything dangerous ever... the difficulty is finding that line of what's enough, and what's too much.... your idea of mature is good, but how do you define that, age? mental ability? It's different in everyone, left to the judgement of the teacher / instructor etc, could be a good option, but what about the rest, sorry mate you're just not up to it yet, come back next year?..... not so easy to define, or put in place...

Sadly there is no answer, your damned if you do, and damned if you don't, but if you stop them doing everything that's ok, because they're safe? your right I'm sympathetic to the education syystem, they get crapped on from all sides, but if the default answer is where's the cotton wool again, I can't see how we'll ever move forward.........
Again, stopping everything and procedures etc, don't seem to work either, there's still accidents....maybe less, but any is too many, so what's the answer???

difficult one indeed.....

Workplaces I have no quibble with, it’s the schools situation I was talking specifically about. The case in point I think highlights just how dangerous machines like this are, and I can well understand why schools have gone away from allowing pupils access.

I wouldn’t hesitate for a moment if my kids wanted to use my gear under my supervision - I’m not entirely sure I’d be happy about them using them in a school environment if the opportunity ever arose.

 

[mtt.tr]

Just found the video of the brain dead students.
It could have been a lot worse.

Wtf!!! Brain dead or what

 

[pressbrake1]

You can’t legislate against stupidity nor can you educate stupid

 

[Kayos]

You can’t legislate against stupidity nor can you educate stupid

So then we go to option 4 and remove them from site

 

[stuvy]

Incomprehensible logic.

I watched him drive a plasterboard rawl plug into the wall whilst the impact driver was in reverse earlier the kid is beyond help

 

[pressbrake1]

Here’s a Japanese turner, probably been wearing gloves for sixty years and another person doesn’t make the shift and gets mutilated

 

[Pete.]

Not that easy
Blame culture thinks that

The age-old problem is that for every person who thinks that you SHOULD put your thinking head on at work (and it's mainly those people that DO put it on) there's an equal number that think that if they only ever have to do something when they are explicitly told to.

A couple of years ago I had a guy come to my demolition site to drill 8" holes through a concrete slab into the floor below. Not part of my work but on daywork for the client.

I made sure he had the stuff to do it safely so the 8" diameter cored would be caught but he flatly refused to use it. I got two of my laborers to take the safety device (a tin tray welded ontot the top of an acrow) right to the place he need to use it, installing it would have taken only moments yet he still refused to put it up. In the end I had no choice but to pass the problem upstairs.

His reasoning? "I haven't been pulled up on it by *the client* so why should I?"

So this time-served operative (not a youngster either this guy is older than me) thought it was OK to drop 20kg concrete cores through the floor into a populated space below just because someone that day hadn't told him he couldn't.

It's not "blame culture" that's at fault, it's morons like this guy.

 

[pressbrake1]

The age-old problem is that for every person who thinks that you SHOULD put your thinking head on at work (and it's mainly those people that DO put it on) there's an equal number that think that if they only ever have to do something when they are explicitly told to.

A couple of years ago I had a guy come to my demolition site to drill 8" holes through a concrete slab into the floor below. Not part of my work but on daywork for the client.

I made sure he had the stuff to do it safely so the 8" diameter cored would be caught but he flatly refused to use it. I got two of my laborers to take the safety device (a tin tray welded ontot the top of an acrow) right to the place he need to use it, installing it would have taken only moments yet he still refused to put it up. In the end I had no choice but to pass the problem upstairs.

His reasoning? "I haven't been pulled up on it by *the client* so why should I?"

So this time-served operative (not a youngster either this guy is older than me) thought it was OK to drop 20kg concrete cores through the floor into a populated space below just because someone that day hadn't told him he couldn't.

It's not "blame culture" that's at fault, it's morons like this guy.

He was just a **** , a stupid selfish one at that. Even if it was a empty sealed room below you don’t want the floor damaged Not being involved with site work I see less oiks I suppose.

 

[Pete.]

Believe me there are vastly more people who trust to luck than those that trust to judgement.

 

[highseas]

Here’s a Japanese turner, probably been wearing gloves for sixty years and another person doesn’t make the shift

Reaching in to pull that swarf off and bang! Slight ripping sound no time for a scream then “thump thump” for a few moments and the sound of wet rags slapping against the wall.....

Yeh no thanks!

 

[minimutly]

Even a tractor PTO, at tick-over, will wrap an unsuspecting user around itself with devastating consequences.

I know two people in the pto club. Neighbours daughter’s boyfriend running a potato or something mangle, unguarded pto, caught his overalls, pulled him in. He went round a few times before someone stopped it. Survived with multiple fractures and a changed personality. Speaking to him about it, he reckoned he could hear (as well as feel) his bones breaking.
Alastair Dent, local pub landlord (and Midget/ Cooper 500 racer), when he was younger, leant off the back of the tractor to adjust the linkage, jumper caught, pulled him out of the seat. Made a mess of him, but he survived.
Lastly, one guy up the road, pto to the slurry tanker caught his jumper, ripped his arm off and threw it into the slurry pit....

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Totally agree.
Hard enough to stay in business as it is. That fine is crazy!
There was a company heavily fined because one of their tipper drivers raised the bed under power lines and was electrocuted. How do you legislate against stupidity? These fines are often big enough to force companies out of business and make Britain less competitive around the World. They are going way too far now!

If they had sacked him for incompetence they would still have been in the wrong

 

[Seadog]

Neighbours daughter, running a potato or something mangle, unguarded pto, caught his overalls, pulled him in. He went round a few times

Is this what you mean by "a changed personality?"