Why was old switchgear so complex?

[Milkybars]

Are you sure the right video is linked ..Grandma and her sofa ???>>??

 

[brightspark]

Mostly old rubbish that ive dragged out. But i do tend to collect alot of pointless lengths of new stuff

I chuck loads of short ends of cable out of van when cleaning it out. most about 6 to 8 meters long if I'm wiring a ringmain I use them all up on one job

 

[ronan]

My last employed machine tool builder job was for this lot until it was relocated to serbia .
This stuff could be a headache with the plc/cnc hybrid systems
Funny how when I worked there the owner wouldn’t even look at me but since Ive had my own shop he talks to me like a equal!

Who were the conrods made for ?

 

[pressbrake1]

Who were the conrods made for ?

I was on process machine tool manufacturing .
I don’t know about now, some of these are gone
Saab, rover ford detroit diesel cummins perkins cat polaris cosworth.
Engine blocks for fords

We made vertical spindle grinders rotary carousel machines honing
Micron precision boring machines etc etc all cnc obviously

 

[pressbrake1]

Are you sure the right video is linked ..Grandma and her sofa ???>>??

I phone being retarded

 

[pressbrake1]

It was a rubbish video, Ive not watched it before. I was hoping it would show inside a modern control cabinet which still utilise some relay logic

 

[minimutly]

Ive used thermal imaging to fault find on big relay logic cabinets
Saves a lot of time unless yhe machine has been broken down all shift and cold!

When I worked in the dairy industry the powder bagging machines (relay logic) were allways stopping - pages and pages of wiring diagrams, used to insert fingers in each page as I worked through the circuits. Eventually learned that all you needed to do was work out at which step the machine had stopped, check which relay was not pulled in and tap the one before in the sequence with a screwdriver. Nine times out of ten it was dust in the contacts and 24V wasn't enough to break it down.
The worst thing we ever did was blow the panel out - nothing worked when we switched it on.
When the machines ran it was a constant cacophany of relays and mini contactors banging in and out.

 

[Spark plug]

It was a rubbish video, Ive not watched it before. I was hoping it would show inside a modern control cabinet which still utilise some relay logic

The closest you usually come to relay logic these days is a lamp test circuit, PLC’s are so cheep now they are used for the most basic of control applications.

I’m not saying it’s always a good thing, I do appreciate a good control panel.

 

[pressbrake1]

The closest you usually come to relay logic these days is a lamp test circuit, PLC’s are so cheep now they are used for the most basic of control applications.

I’m not saying it’s always a good thing, I do appreciate a good control panel.

I use siemens logo plcs on small stuff
Sub £100 no brainer, works out cheaper and easier

 

[ronan]

Did control engineering/plcs/ladder logic as part of my degree, and i have to say i hated it, which is probably why i never landed a job in maintenance.

 

[Turbo]

When I worked as a Karcher service engineer 30 years ago you could diagnose a non working steam washer with a loop of wire, using it to bypass different components in the 24v control circuit until it worked.
Now you need a laptop & software just to service them, never mind sorting a fault!

 

[pressbrake1]

Did control engineering/plcs/ladder logic as part of my degree, and i have to say i hated it, which is probably why i never landed a job in maintenance.

Dont have ladder programming misery anymore.
I have software that allows me to design a program using schematics ie I can place a timer here then a nor gate etc then its converted to ladder and downloaded to the plc

 

[axomoxia]

Dont have ladder programming misery anymore.
I have software that allows me to design a program using schematics ie I can place a timer here then a nor gate etc then its converted to ladder and downloaded to the plc

I spent 3 years at Omron working on their CX-Server and CX-Programmer PLC interface software doing just that. Mostly on the CX-Server side, so interfacing to SCADA systems primarily. Still don't know how to program ladder logic!

 

[daleyd]

Most higher end PLC's now support a variety of languages (IEC 61131-3), simpler/older ones are stuck with ladder which is not really a problem, but it does sometimes makes doing complex stuff more tricky.

They all have their place, ladder is great for simpler jobs that are going to be maintained by electrical people with limited plc knowledge - they very roughly equate to electrical drawings, so people that are not from a programming background can get a grasp fairly easily.

Function block is great for analogue signals, this is the primary language of the software used a lot in the company I work for, as we mainly deal with temperature/process stuff.

SFC is sequential charts - great for things which need to happen in order, its like a live version of a flow chart. Again we use these a lot for sequencing pumps, valves, loading sequences etc.

Structured Text is a pure programming language, very powerful and probably my favourite way to program stuff, if I get the choice. It's got quite a bit in common with other programming languages so is pretty easy for people who have some programming knowledge to pick up. I spent a long time working for a German company who exclusively used this so got to know it quite well.

Instruction List is garbage, if you don't understand the language it makes no sense and is hard to follow - I have never used this and don't intend to.

I've done a few jobs where cabinets full of switchgear relays etc have been replaced with PLC's - it's amazing what could be achieved through hardwiring but it doesn't half make it difficult when things start getting old and failing. In a decent PLC system, as long as the programming is correct then upwards of 99% of failures are due to something external, like the field wiring, relays etc.

 

[daleyd]

Dont have ladder programming misery anymore.
I have software that allows me to design a program using schematics ie I can place a timer here then a nor gate etc then its converted to ladder and downloaded to the plc

To be a tiny bit pedantic, it won’t actually be converted to ladder, it will be converted to something much more basic before it gets sent to the plc.
Ladder is just a visual representation of a program, same as function block, structured text or any other programming language.

 

[pressbrake1]

To be a tiny bit pedantic, it won’t actually be converted to ladder, it will be converted to something much more basic before it gets sent to the plc.
Ladder is just a visual representation of a program, same as function block, structured text or any other programming language.

You know exactly what I mean!

 

[daleyd]

You know exactly what I mean!

I do, like I said I was just being picky

 

[mtt.tr]

You know exactly what I mean!

Prepare yourself !

 

[minimutly]

I once wrote the code for an engine management system using instruction list - move bytes, add bytes, start count for timers etc. The compiler converted it to hex code to send it to the microcontroller. I would really like to get back into it, but don't have the time.
The good thing about it was the package came with an emulation program, so you could run and step through it on a pc, and then squirt it into an actual programmable chip on a circuit board. Ran my mini on it, ignition (very hard), injection, fuel pump. I was planning to develop it further, but never did.
One thing that has stuck in my mind - one of the timer or counter features wouldn't work, no matter what I tried. So I started guessing some settings, eventually it worked - the manual was wrong!