Who know about hydraulics / power

  1. Justme

    Justme Member

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    3,175
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    Yes one of them but not the £8k price tag.

    Or more closely trying to make of theses


    Weight will also be an issue as will alignment as the processor will be trailer mounted. As per the video mounting on the 3 poi t link makes sense.
     
  2. Justme

    Justme Member

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    3,175
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    Price wise there is a big jump between 20-30hp and 35-40hp engines.
     
  3. m_c Member

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    571
    Location:
    East Lothian
    https://www.duun.no/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Samlebrosjyre-VM-ENG-2.pdf
    Page 15.

    I've designed and built log splitters and a kindling wood processor in the past, so I do know a bit about the likely loads these machines see.
    If they had somebody knowledgeable design their hydraulics, they could do it of one big pump with flow dividers/prioritising valves to limit the motor size required without having that much of an impact on processing speeds, but it looks like they opted for the KISS approach, then bodged an electric motor on because people wanted an electric option.
     
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  4. Justme

    Justme Member

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    3,175
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    I am leaning towards the KISS approach & having an engine powered pto.

    I really liked the idea of a remote engine & pumps, however if / when I upgrade the new machine might not be compatible but a 40hp pto work all current processors.
     
  5. sako243

    sako243 Member

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    Location:
    My mansion in Wales
    I'd just grab an old engine and knock up a PTO off the back of the flywheel. @8ob even has some drop boxes that will drop the gearing sufficiently.

    I might do something similar once I've dropped the 1UZ into the Defender with the old 300Tdi engine. Or perhaps the LD28 out of the 6x6 when the Mazda lump arrives for that one.

    After all an old school mechanical diesel engine can be picked up for a couple of hundred quid at most and they'll likely be at least 100hp so plenty of reserve. E.g. the two I mentioned should both be around the 100hp numbers. OK the downside is they are ~300kg fully dressed but plenty of power for what you want.
     
  6. Justme

    Justme Member

    Messages:
    3,175
    Location:
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    I have actually seen that but missed the 63amps on 230v.

    Surely that means it is single phase as thats 14kw theoretical potential?

    With the 400v about 13kw.

    Re bodging on an engine. I think they went further than that as they used 3 different pumps plus other parts of the machine has different motors too.
    The pto saw motor is 11.2cc & the elec just 8.2cc.


    Another thing I have now spotted is the the pto gearbox is actually 3.8 to 1 not the 3 to 1 I thought it was.
    That increases pump speed from 1500-1640 to 1800-2000rpm. That adds further hp requirements.

    What I dont want to happen is that it works but not very well.

    Now the question is...

    Anyone know of a good reliable cheap to run but not to costly to buy stand alone engine?
     
  7. sako243

    sako243 Member

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    1,359
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    @8ob has a whole host of engines lying around his yard (unsurprisingly).
     
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  8. m_c Member

    Messages:
    571
    Location:
    East Lothian
    You have to allow for it being 3 phase.
    The 32A is per cable, so the equation is Voltage x Current x 1.73 (officially it's the square root of 3)
    Which for 400V 32A is 22.1KW, or 230V is 25KW
     
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  9. m_c Member

    Messages:
    571
    Location:
    East Lothian
    As for engines, if you're not too bothered about building something new that doesn't meet current emissions limits, you can get a fully dressed Perkins AD3.152 from agriline - https://www.agrilineproducts.com/massey-ferguson-complete-engine-ad3-152-with-injection-pump-7589
    Just needs starter, alternator, wiring, waterpump, fan, and radiator added.
    Or they do the turbo version which includes starter, alternator, waterpump and fan - https://www.agrilineproducts.com/massey-ferguson-complete-engine-at3-152-7590 although it's currently out of stock.

    Not the most refined of engines, but common, reliable, and plenty spares available.
    It's worth noting these are Chinese copies, but I've fitted a couple now, and I can't fault them. They're probably getting made with better technology than the original ones.

    However, you'd need to figure out how to mount hydraulic pumps to them. Official perkins SAE bellhousings are available.
    Have a look at this thread for information https://www.smokstak.com/forum/threads/perkins-3-152.174031/
    And this is the bellhousing in question - https://www.riccigiorgio.com/prodotto/campana-volano-perkins-3713531a-9/

    I do happen to know where there was a flywheel and bellhousing sitting, but I'm hoping to get them for my own project if they're still there.
     
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  10. Justme

    Justme Member

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    3,175
    Location:
    Pwllheli Wales

    Now I get it. Basically a 11kw motor but with a large safety factor re overloading.
     
  11. Justme

    Justme Member

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    3,175
    Location:
    Pwllheli Wales
    Interesting & should be very long lived.

    I think weight might be an issue.

    Its all got to go on a solid 3500kg trailer.
    Trailer 800-1100kg
    processor 875kg+ fluids so about 950kg
    crane & mounts 500-700kg
    log deck 200-300kg
    fuel, spares, tools & bits 200kg+

    So potentially only leaving 300-500kg for the power unit.
     
  12. Bornfree Member

    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    England Norfolk
    I would go for a kubota engine they run for ever. And very economical.
     
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  13. 8ob

    8ob Forum Supporter

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    I think with a limit on weight of 300-500kg it would probably be the best option, I am not sure of the HP but there are a couple of Toro mowers festering in the yard that have Kubota engines with pumps fitted. @slim_boy_fat knows a bit about these.

    Bob

    IMG_1761.JPG IMG_1762.JPG
     
  14. Justme

    Justme Member

    Messages:
    3,175
    Location:
    Pwllheli Wales

    Cant see that being close to 40hp.
     
  15. slim_boy_fat

    slim_boy_fat Forum Supporter

    I do indeed, I spent years sitting on, maintaining and servicing them. Iirc, the biggest problem we encountered with one of them was a leaking injector. Also, ours were 'hand me downs', but very well cared for ones, prior to their arriving with us.

    I can also attest the rollers on front & rear of the cutting heads [not brushes like that one ^^] come in very useful when designing/building projects..... ;) :laughing:
     
  16. 8ob

    8ob Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    6,692
    Location:
    moscow on thames
    17.5kw so a match for the direct drive leccy motor, without all the reduction gears etc involved with a tractor PTO and subsequent drop boxes its probably more than adequate.

    Bob
     
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  17. 8ob

    8ob Forum Supporter

    Messages:
    6,692
    Location:
    moscow on thames
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  18. Bornfree Member

    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    England Norfolk
    A kubota D1703 is 30hp continuous rating at 2800rpm and weighs 148kg dry
    A V1903 is 34hp at 2800rpm 180kg
    A V2203 is 40hp at 2800rpm 180kg
    Or a lighter option is
    V1505 29hp at 3000rpm and 110kg.
     
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  19. Bornfree Member

    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    England Norfolk
    Also the perkins 400 series is worth a look
    These are very similar to kubota they do 2 3 and 4 cylinder models. We run about 20 of the 4cylinder engines in weidermann loaders some over 15,000 hours I've never seen one worn up yet.
     
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