Which MIG for heavy industrial work?

[Ciaran-Rob]

I'm thinking of buying a welder for heavy work..Needs to be able to weld steel beams and RSJ's etc.. Around 300-400 Amps, Weldequip advised to stay away from Sealey, Draper , clarke etc. And go for Lincoln, Murex/ESAB, Migatronic, Kemppi etc.. Why should i only go for those certain makes?

Don't be afraid to name specific models! Any help will be recognised with open arms!

Thanks, Ciaran-rob.

 

[irondarren]

I assume you have access to 3 phase power?
Lincoln Murex etc have all been around for year, have loads of service agents, so spares aren't a problem. The other thing you need is good duty cycle, if your going to be pushing down 300 plus amps and it keeps overheating the welder and you have to keep stopping, its not much fun and unporductive. One of the guys on here has bought a porta mig 363 off weldequip it has a duty cycle of 60% at 350 amp, which is excellent meaning it will weld for 6 minutes out of 10 mins, meaning only 4 mins down time. In reality under normal general fabrication use means it wont over heat. Personally i would badger weldequipe for a price on a 363 porta mig and see what he comes up with.
Murex trans mig 350, 30% duty cycle @340 amps 60%duty @ 250amps
Lincoln power tech 360s water cooled 40% duty @ 350A 60%duty @ 285amps
Reality is a machine that pulls 40% duty @350amps should be abosutely fine. The reality is how much money are you willing to spend?
The murex trans mig is going to cost you about £1300 or more plus VAT, the lincoln water cooled unit I don't know the price but i can guess at £2000 maybe more

 

[Ciaran-Rob]

Hmmm well I'm going to see what happens and put away so much money every week! About this 3-phase power..Could you give me the info on it?
I think i understand it...But don't call me an idiot if im wrong! Is 1-phase just a normal 13 amp fuse...Where as 3-phase is one of those round plugs?

Thanks, Ciaran-Rob.

 

[irondarren]

Ok 3 phase is 415v, normal household power is 240v. Where would you be using the welder from? Home?

 

[Ciaran-Rob]

Yes at home...How do you resolve this problem?

Thanks, Ciaran-Rob

 

[irondarren]

Ok your in the same boat as me, and im afraid it doesn't float to well so to speak. Most big powerful MIG unit are designed to run on 415volt 3 phase power, basically an industrial power supply. I too only have a 240v household supply and this very badly limits the machines you can have. Murex, Esab and Kemppi as far as i am aware only produce a 250Amp machine that runs 240v. This doesn't leave to many choices if you wish to go higher, Eland used to a few years ago have a 300amp 240v welder and I know portamig produce a 360amp 240v welder. by the end of the year I am very likely to ask weldequipe to quote me on a 360amp machine unless i can find other manufactures that produce high amperage 240v machines, but i won't hold my breath.
The other thing to bear in mind is do you want a compact machine, ie the welding unit and wire feeder are in the same case or a seperate unit where the power unit and wire feeder can be moved about independantly. Good thing about the seperate units is the welder power unit can be left in the corner and the wire feed can be moved around, thus allowing you more freedom

 

[mishka]

Pay lots of money to your electricity supplier for a 3-phase supply, then pay a lot of money to an electrician to install the appropriate distro board and isolators and large red 3-phase sockets.

A typical domestic supply will handle a 180A welder, which would weld up to around 1/4" (6.35mm). You might get up to 250A if you have a high-capacity (32A) line run in direct from the inlet. But that's probably the limit.

Do you *really* need to weld thicker steel than 1/4"? Is this going to be anything structural, i.e. where a weld failure could be disastrous?

 

[Ciaran-Rob]

Yeah, if i was buying a welder I would go for a the one that has the sepetate small box with the wire feeder in! So i Suppose the only soloution is to buy a generator to get 3 phase power?

 

[shenion]

Yes at home...How do you resolve this problem?

Thanks, Ciaran-Rob

In home, you don't

3-phase is usually only available in industrial areas. For you house, they would have to run 3-phase to the street, replace you power transformer, meters main panel etc.

Single phase will be ok but it will want a huge current at 240V.

Above 200A, most are 3-phase. Some can run 2 or 3-phase, often with 2/3 power on single phase.

Lincoln are good units, I have a 325A one here, but it is 3-phase so I can't use it.

The portamig sounds like a good fit if it can run on single phase.

 

[Ciaran-Rob]

Wel I am going to be an Engineer..Appretice at the moment so I'm gona need a 3 phase welder some time along the line..My friend got a 240 amp welder and i thought i'd be OK at that but my employer said that was a bit light for the work I'd be doing!

 

[DIY Welding]

dont buy a gennie! it would have to be around 15 to 20 KVA to run a 350 to 400 mig set Butters do a 400A single phase with seperate feeder designed for the Irish market you will need a 50A single phase supply duty cycle is
400A @35%
340A @60%
300A @ 100%
welds from 30A to 420A comes with 4 roller drive seperate feeder digital amp/voltmeter

 

[Ciaran-Rob]

What about a generator? would that not give 3 phase power?

 

[irondarren]

Buying a generator is a real expensive way around, a gen is going to cost you £5000 upwards, then the welder on top of that. Problem is many big industria power tools require 3 phase power

The box bottom left is a 240v to 415 convertor which will run motorised 415v equipement up to 4kw, the nasty looking blue thing on the right is a belt sander, as let i still have ten fingers but one slip onto that belt and i would be down to my wrists lol. Its one beast of a sand/grinding machine nice for veeing out or radiusing corners on steel plate, but it wont run a welder but it does get round the 415v problem to a certain extent on power tools

 

[irondarren]

Diywelding is right the butter 401 is single phase, its one of the other machines i have looked at, excellent duty cycle and a seperate wire feed unit, but it is likely to set you back about £1800 or more unless one of the weld distributer guys can do you a good deal, but it is the only real answer unless weldequip has any other suggestions

 

[Ciaran-Rob]

My employer runs his own engineering business from home.. He has got 4 3 phase welders and has a belt sander, air compressor and all major industrial tools etc.. He got a Ford engine that he uses as a generator...I think he got it for cheap too..He says it would have enough power to power every house on his road..

 

[irondarren]

If you can get a generator to produce 3 phase power thats cool, it does open up more options, which is great. But its added expense before you can buy a welder, and of course generators are noisey, if you have neighbours next door they might complain. If no neighbours close enough to hear it and you dont mind the expense of the generator, you now have loads more welders to choose from.

 

[weldequip]

unless weldequip has any other suggestions

Portamig 350 SWFU 240v Single Phase
350 Amps @ 60% Duty Cycle

Portamig 400 SWFU 240v Single Phase
400 Amps @ 60% Duty Cycle

SWFU = Seperate Wire Feed Unit & you have the option of standard 2 roll, or 4x4 wire drive + different lenghts of interconnecting leads, digital Amp/Volt Meters etc.

DIY Welding is right, forget generators to power this size of welder... you'll need a second mortgage! If remote power is needed go for a welder generator on MMA (stick) & maybe add a remote MIG box.
weldequip

 

[rtbcomp]

In the UK I understand that three-phase goes down every street, each block of three houses connected to a different phase. There is a guy at the top of my street with 3-phase installed.

 

[weldequip]

I wouldn't know about that Roger but we are talking Southern Ireland here... no Post Codes & just got electric street lamps (run off potatoes apparantly)
weldequip

 

[PyroDan]

I'm no electrician (yet ) but 3 phase is actually very easy to get at home. As long as you dig the trench to the path and your workshop, the electricity company will drop you off a conduit with a draw rope inside for you to put in the trench, and then you can backfill it. It should cost you about £800, certainly no more then £1000 (as they want your money from the electric you use!) They will then connect it at both ends. All you need is an electrician to connect up to it. Only drawback is they will only let you have one supply, so you will have to power your house from your garage or vice versa.

BTW, 3 phase doesn't come under Part P luckily, So you will need a fully qualified electrician as this is now industrial and no longer domestic.

Danny