Where's everyone going?

[jmp49]

I originally asked the question of where are we all going? The majority of replies have suggested not very far at all in general, which suggests that even in a multi car household your not all likely to need to charge your car at the same time, just as you don't all fill it up with petrol every day, so I don't think this argument stacks up.

Likewise as it becomes clear to manufacturers that one of the stoppers to them meeting their targets is lack of infrastructure, they will bring the power of their groups to driving infrastructure forward. The big names won't just sit by and watch profits fall due to a lack of chargers.

And back to my original question. I might have missed it but I don't think you've shared with us your average sort of journey distance yet. Just told us why things are impossible and don't work, which wasn't the question?

Hey Dan, my average journey is about 140km min. Rarely I'll do 400km+ in a day but it happens. I've outlined above why EV only wont work for me, and I have practical experience in it.

 

[daleyd]

How many times have you been at a EV charging point, and had the car refuse to negotiate a charge level with the point? because our Mii has had this lots of times.
The only SURE way to get home on a journey is to plan to do it one charge, or have a known reliable place to charge in midway and then hope their charging spots are not filled with others charging.
I couldnt have the EV as a only vehicle...

For sure the charging infrastructure needs to improve, but I can honestly say I’ve had that happen once, and then moved to another charger and it worked fine. People are using them for long distances now, so it must work?

Conversely I’ve also been down to my last few miles and pulled into a garage and they’ve had no diesel. Cue frantic searching for another…

Im not saying an ev is perfect, or is suitable for everyone just giving my own experience.

 

[GRW]

MMMMmmmm not if the cars are not at home.

Plus when you suddenly need the car... & find its not got enough juice.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

For sure the charging infrastructure needs to improve,

The final straw for me was a trip from London to Yorkshire...car made it fine but was in need of charging .

The granny charger didn't want to know so I was left searching for a public charger. Eventually found a charger ...and after half an hour of working thro rejected payment cards and trying to download apps it eventually worked (had started to rain by this point).

Same trip on the way home...first charger was broken, second charger looked the business but 7kw...3rd charger eventually worked (again after trying all my debit cards multiple times!).

Added about 2hrs to my journey...after that I bought myself a hybrid and never been happier!

Maybe in 10-15 years I'll get another EV once the current infrastructure mess has been sorted out...or just use one for local trips.

 

[ukracer]

I originally asked the question of where are we all going? The majority of replies have suggested not very far at all in general, which suggests that even in a multi car household your not all likely to need to charge your car at the same time, just as you don't all fill it up with petrol every day, so I don't think this argument stacks up.

As @daleyd suggests most EV users would expect to.leave the house with a full tank. Something they are going to find hard if everyone gets an EV. My son has to keep.his car in the garage for insurance purposes. That only leaves one parking space that will.reach the charger. So we will have to agree to disagree on this one

Likewise as it becomes clear to manufacturers that one of the stoppers to them meeting their targets is lack of infrastructure, they will bring the power of their groups to driving infrastructure forward. The big names won't just sit by and watch profits fall due to a lack of chargers.

Let's hope this works. The situation I visualise is terraced streets every where with large thick charging cables tripping up pedestrians as those with cheaper cars are forced onto EV.

And back to my original question. I might have missed it but I don't think you've shared with us your average sort of journey distance yet. Just told us why things are impossible and don't work, which wasn't the question?

I don't think I have said anything is impossible, but yes I have suggested why things don't work for some ( which is why they don't have an EV already.

As for travel I use around 50 quid in diesel per week. But used to use a tank full in a 2.0 litre passatt estate per week. To be fair I am sure That personally, aside from not being able to afford one, an EV would not be an issue for me as my wife had a severe stroke in 2000 and will.never drive again. We sold (was robbed) our Celtic rambler recently so only have one car here now. Navara is in.lincolnshire waiting to be sold by a magician for 6k. Lol

 

[DanZac]

Hey Dan, my average journey is about 140km min. Rarely I'll do 400km+ in a day but it happens. I've outlined above why EV only wont work for me, and I have practical experience in it.

Thanks for that and your sensible earlier answer and input.

Personally I fully agree with your points and thoughts.
I've never been for foisting EV Technology onto all and sundry. Just as I've always strongly argued that a diesel car isn't the correct choice for the majority of users.

If as a nation we could look at thongs from a sensible perspective, for instance:

Low mileage / short journey users = EV - Phev
Long daily miliages / Remote homeowners = Petrol ICE.
Lorries/ Vans / big mileage users = Diesel engine ICE.

Then we probably wouldn't have half the problems we have got. However, in a lot of cases we opt for vanity and a bigger the better solution.

You and lots of the other responders have clearly considered the issues and come to a sensible compromise/ solution. Which is considerably different to the "it won't work" answer we often see to any problem.

Any problem has a solution, we just need a sensible approach, some flexibility, and an acceptance that change must come as we can't carry on indefinitely as we are.

 

[ukracer]

Plus when you suddenly need the car... & find its not got enough juice.

I have been wondering about that previously.

 

[daleyd]

The final straw for me was a trip from London to Yorkshire...car made it fine but was in need of charging .

The granny charger didn't want to know so I was left searching for a charger. Eventually found a charger ...and after half an hour of working thro rejected payment cards and trying to download apps it eventually worked (had started to rain by this point).

Same trip on the way home...first charger was broken, second charger looked the business but 7kw...3rd charger eventually worked (again after trying all my debit cards multiple times!).

Added about 2hrs to my journey...after that I bought myself a hybrid and never been happier!

Maybe in 10-15 years I'll get another EV once the current infrastructure mess has been sorted out!

I can see how that might taint your experience but in 3 years we’ve been happy enough and not experienced that. We don’t charge a huge amount away from home but it’s been fairly painless, maybe I’m just lucky - as I said earlier I have 2 colleagues who use theirs for work and it seems ok for them.

But I’m not saying it’s perfect or trying to convince anyone to buy one, just to give an honest opinion.

 

[ukracer]

If as a nation we could look at thongs from a sensible perspective, for instance:

Now who's changing the subject.

 

[ukracer]

Thanks for that and your sensible earlier answer and input.

Personally I fully agree with your points and thoughts.
I've never been for foisting EV Technology onto all and sundry. Just as I've always strongly argued that a diesel car isn't the correct choice for the majority of users.

If as a nation we could look at thongs from a sensible perspective, for instance:

Low mileage / short journey users = EV - Phev
Long daily miliages / Remote homeowners = Petrol ICE.
Lorries/ Vans / big mileage users = Diesel engine ICE.

Then we probably wouldn't have half the problems we have got. However, in a lot of cases we opt for vanity and a bigger the better solution.

You and lots of the other responders have clearly considered the issues and come to a sensible compromise/ solution. Which is considerably different to the "it won't work" answer we often see to any problem.

Any problem has a solution, we just need a sensible approach, some flexibility, and an acceptance that change must come as we can't carry on indefinitely as we are.

Busy just now will reply later... have a good day.

 

[ukracer]

Hey Dan, my average journey is about 140km min. Rarely I'll do 400km+ in a day but it happens. I've outlined above why EV only wont work for me, and I have practical experience in it.

Ironically it might be an "almost" solution for me. Speak.later..

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

We don’t charge a huge amount away from home

I think this is the key to happy EV ownership....if you can charge at home and just use within it's range then they're wonderful.

Public chargers are an expensive nightmare.

When I added up cost of public charging (twice fueling a hybrid!)...then the hefty insurance cost I decided its just not worth it for me.

We must be one of the few countries where running an EV can be more expensive than an ICE.

 

[DanZac]

As @daleyd suggests most EV users would expect to.leave the house with a full tank. Something they are going to find hard if everyone gets an EV. My son has to keep.his car in the garage for insurance purposes. That only leaves one parking space that will.reach the charger. So we will have to agree to disagree on this one



Let's hope this works. The situation I visualise is terraced streets every where with large thick charging cables tripping up pedestrians as those with cheaper cars are forced onto EV.



I don't think I have said anything is impossible, but yes I have suggested why things don't work for some ( which is why they don't have an EV already.

As for travel I use around 50 quid in diesel per week. But used to use a tank full in a 2.0 litre passatt estate per week. To be fair I am sure That personally, aside from not being able to afford one, an EV would not be an issue for me as my wife had a severe stroke in 2000 and will.never drive again. We sold (was robbed) our Celtic rambler recently so only have one car here now. Navara is in.lincolnshire waiting to be sold by a magician for 6k. Lol

Thankyou for that reply, you've raised some far better points here than in some of our earlier back and forth, many of which I can fully agre with.

As in my earlier post, I have no desire to foist EV tech onto anyone, and don't have an EV myself, or any plans to convert imminently (hardly use a car, drive an old shed so it's cheap motoring, etc, etc).

But change has to happen, and whilst I'm not saying EV is perfect (far from it) we can't go on as we are, screaming around the place in 2 ton monsters thinking we're all in the right and have priority (and I'll include myself in that statement)

Whilst we don't need to all instantly embrace new things or swap our ICE for EV, we do need to plan for a different future and adapt as required.

 

[daleyd]

I think this is the key to happy EV ownership....if you can charge at home and just use within it's range then they're wonderful.

Public chargers are an expensive nightmare.

When I added up cost of public charging (twice fueling a hybrid!)...then the hefty insurance cost I decided its just not worth it for me.

Yeah you have to choose on merit. If it’s doesn’t work for you then no good persevering.

 

[Onoff]

If as a nation we could look at thongs from a sensible perspective, for instance:

A bit nippy in this weather...

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone on here who owns a Tesla...I think their charging network is well sorted out so I can imagine that removes a huge amount of the hassle maybe?

Also what's their pricing like...I was paying £20 to add 100 miles at a rapid charger. My hybrid can do 100 with about £10 of petrol!

 

[Onoff]

So what is "the" EV / PHEV to get at the moment?

 

[jmp49]

For sure the charging infrastructure needs to improve, but I can honestly say I’ve had that happen once, and then moved to another charger and it worked fine. People are using them for long distances now, so it must work?

Conversely I’ve also been down to my last few miles and pulled into a garage and they’ve had no diesel. Cue frantic searching for another…

Im not saying an ev is perfect, or is suitable for everyone just giving my own experience.

The times it happened to me, every charging point in the network refused to deliver charge so no point driving to the next point along. It even went back to Seat under warantee for updates because of negotiation failures in certain areas, but it turns out there's not one standard for negotiation, but a whole raft of them and your car has to speak the one that particular network talks or your stuffed. I blame the charging network provider, but wouldnt it be amazing if they all agreed to just stick to one standard protocol and payment card so everything worked everywhere...

I think the point also ignored here is that running out of petrol or diesel, results in me getting a phone call to come out with some in a jerry can which I always keep full (like a lot of people who live out in the sticks). The few times the EV has nearly not made it home, I was got a panic'd call asking me if I could pack a generator and fuel to run it and some extension leads and the granny charger and we were going to try and charge it enough to limp home using it. Off road it would be even more impractical. So for me we have to PLAN the journey to make it off resources we know are going to be there exactly as Pidgeon Dropping said above.

 

[Onoff]

We cannot avoid the march of progression (some may argue it's anything but) and any change is going to be divisive but to take our mind off it, thanks to @DanZac we can look at thongs!

THAT'S where I'd like to go!

 

[daleyd]

The times it happened to me, every charging point in the network refused to deliver charge so no point driving to the next point along. It even went back to Seat under warantee for updates because of negotiation failures in certain areas, but it turns out there's not one standard for negotiation, but a whole raft of them and your car has to speak the one that particular network talks or your stuffed. I blame the charging network provider, but wouldnt it be amazing if they all agreed to just stick to one standard protocol and payment card so everything worked everywhere...

I think the point also ignored here is that running out of petrol or diesel, results in me getting a phone call to come out with some in a jerry can which I always keep full (like a lot of people who live out in the sticks). The few times the EV has nearly not made it home, I was got a panic'd call asking me if I could pack a generator and fuel to run it and some extension leads and the granny charger and we were going to try and charge it enough to limp home using it. Off road it would be even more impractical. So for me we have to PLAN the journey to make it off resources we know are going to be there exactly as Pidgeon Dropping said above.

Again, that’s your experience and if it’s not working for you then I wouldn’t argue against it.