What welder to buy?

[murran33]

Hi there,
I'm a complete newbie to welding so i am after some advice.
I have about 30 6mm round mild steel rings to weld with maybe more to do in the future so I'm thinking i may work out cheaper for me to get a welder and do them my self.
The welds don't need to be particularly neat as they wont be seen nut they do need to be strong. I am trying to keep the cost down as much as possible.
Could anyone advise me as top what sort of machine i should be getting.
Would a arc welder do the job and if so what size and how much would one set me back.
If anyone could give me some advice that would be great.
Many thanks,
Andy.

 

[English Steve]

Hi Andy,

A mig would be easier but assuming that the rings are 6mm thick steel, you would need something around 180 amps and prep the ends to be sure of a good strong weld. Mig sets in that size can be quite expensive new.
More cost effective would be a stick welder, but not so easy to use if you don't have much experience.

The Clarke sets get some good press on here, have a look at the Machine Mart for prices and specs, then if you want to go that way PM Weldequip for a more competitive price. Alternatively, MTA are just up the road from you in Portsmouth.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Hi Andy, for 6mm round you'd be better off with a mig rather than a stick welder, you can just point the wire at the joint and fire away rather than have to try and strike an arc then weld in such a small area. TBH pretty much any mig 150A and above would probably do what you want as you can bevel the ends of the bar and weld it all the way round.
Machine choice really depends on what you may want to use it for in the future. Spend decent money once rather than buy something and grow out of it (like I did ) .
Another alternative would be to buy an inverter tig , you can pick them up pretty cheaply if you're not fussy which part of the world they come from and it would give you very strong, neat welds, the downside is it's a little harder to learn.
What sort of budget do you have to spend?

 

[Archie]

I spend quite a bit of time welding up 8mm rings (the ends together and then to uprights). Most of these are essentially large tack welds as they are just where two 8mm bars meet so I tend to whack up the power a bit to get some heat into the join quickly. God knows if this is good practice or not but it works for me!

Anyway, I use a setting of about 25v out of a possible 40v on a 400 amp welder which I assume corresponds to 220amps or something like. As Steve says, new migs in the sort of power range you're after can be quite pricey. Stick is cheaper in almost all respects but not as easy to use. Personally I'd go with mig for this job though I have done some of mine with a stick.

If you're planning to do more than 30 then you might want to err on the side of more power since bevelling the ends of lots of rings is going to be really tedious! What sort of budget are you looking at?

EDIT: Damn. Woz beats me to it again!

 

[murran33]

Thanks for the replies.
I wanted to go for the simplest option. i dont like the idea of bevelling all the edges if it can be avoided
I didn't really want to spend much more that about £300.
Can these welders be run off a normal 13 amp plug as i dont have the means to have one hard wired.
How much harder is it to use a stick welder than a mig?
Many thanks,
Andy

 

[English Steve]

Andy, can you just clarify - is the ring made of 6mm round bar or is it a round ring made of 6mm flat? (I made an assumption that it was flat when I first read your post, which is why I suggested a stick welder).

A mig at around the 180amp mark will probably need a 16 amp supply, although it will operate OK off a 13 amp plug at lower settings. I don't know too much about electricity but someone will be along in a bit with some good advice.

 

[murran33]

Hi steve,
The rings are made of 6mm round steel not flat made into a ring.
Many thanks,
Andy

 

[English Steve]

Ah, mig would be easiest then.

 

[Wozzaaah]

You'll get around 150A off a 13A plug depending on the machine, I run my Butters 211 off a 13A plug and yes, the plug gets a little warm and yes, the fuse pops occasionally but hey, it works!

 

[murran33]

OK,
so if i was to go for a mig could anyone recommend one that would be up to the job.
I went into MTA earlier on today and they recomended me to get a Thermal Arc Fabricator 200 @£ 456+vat.
I dont know if this is a good deal or not as like i say i know nothing about welders.
Many thanks,
Andy.

 

[Archie]

There's something in this thread about the thermal arc.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=692

Bear in mind that according to the MTA website that machine has a 30% duty cycle at 145 amps. This means that at 145 amps you can weld for three minutes out of a ten minute period before it will overheat. Then you have to wait for it to cool.

To be honest, that seems like a fantastically low duty cycle for what is supposed to be a 200amp machine (how long would it last at full whack? a couple of seconds?) which either means they've made a mistake on the website or I'd steer clear.

It'd be worth giving Weldequip a PM and seeing what he'd offer you in that sort of price range. At the worst you'll get some good advice.

 

[fingers99]

PM weldequip, who may be able to cut you a good deal. The other thing to bear in mind is that the welder is -- I guess -- going to see alternative use, so minimum settings become important too, especially if you decide to do car stuff.

 

[gavuk]

hi andy ,to weld the round rings mig will certainly be easier ,how strong does the joint need to be? is it lifting or supporting something or more decorative ?u may get away with a cheaper/smaller welder depending on what the rings are used for therefore saving cash but as mentioned earlier ,duty cycle will be lower too,a lot depends on the rings use,and if u expect to do any other type of welding also ie cars etc also how fast u will be welding them ......generally bigger is better,least thats wot the missus says

 

[murran33]

Hi gavuk,
The welds have to be strong as there are going to be used to build djembe's which is a west African drum.
The rings are pulled under tension with rope to pull the skin tight.
Many thanks,
Andy

 

[Archie]

Hi Andy,

How are you attaching the skin to the rings? I assume the rope zig zags around the drum so how many times will the rope cross over each ring? What diameter are the rings? I only ask because I've made quite a few things out of 6mm round and it's pretty floppy. I wouldn't have thought you'd be able to put much tension on a ring made of 6mm round without it bowing?

As far as the welder goes I would stick to the Mig for rod of that size. Also consider what you might want to do with a welder in future before you buy one.

 

[murran33]

6mm is ample for the job.
Its classed as the standard size for that type of drum.
The rope zig zags up and down the outside of the drum about 30 times.
Andy

 

[Archie]

6mm is ample for the job.
Its classed as the standard size for that type of drum.
The rope zig zags up and down the outside of the drum about 30 times.
Andy

OK then. The photo doesn't seem to be working but it's be good to see the finished article!

 

[snowcat]

There's something in this thread about the thermal arc.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=692

Bear in mind that according to the MTA website that machine has a 30% duty cycle at 145 amps. This means that at 145 amps you can weld for three minutes out of a ten minute period before it will overheat. Then you have to wait for it to cool.

To be honest, that seems like a fantastically low duty cycle for what is supposed to be a 200amp machine (how long would it last at full whack? a couple of seconds?) which either means they've made a mistake on the website or I'd steer clear.

13% at 200 amps, I have one I use as a light duty machine for any sheet work, handy to have a set permanently running light wire........It will go very shortly though for a Kemmpi, Miniarcmig.....Go for something with more guts if its going to be your main set......

 

[Archie]

13%!!! I thought it was a misprint! Definitely not something to have as an all-rounder, then.

 

[snowcat]

13%!!! I thought it was a misprint! Definitely not something to have as an all-rounder, then.

TBH hadn't noticed the D/C till you pointed it out, I only bought it as I had no MIG that was suitable for welding 1.8-3.0mm plate......but thats pretty shocking would have expected 30% at the 200 amp mark.....apart from that its quite a robust little machine and I made a couple of 1.8mm tanks up with it yesterday no problems......mind you not a patch on the big machines, not really a fair test (price wise) tho i guess.....