What TIG?

[Tash]

Hi everyone,

Thanks in advance for your help.

We are currently looking at replacing our welders which drowned in a recent flood (Oxford RT180 and Clarke 220TE). The clarke was replaced another machine 5 years ago and despite the specs being similar the old machine was much better.

This time round we would like:-

• A TIG machine - as more often than not we end up with aluminium or stainless to weld (we are a marine establishment that does occasional welding in our workshop)
• Single Phase - workshops are in the middle of nowhere!
• to err on the side of over specifying the machine
• Something that is likely to be long lasting
• Something that can be mounted on a trolley / mounted above high water level or is lift-able on to the bench (lifting equipment available!)
• A decent duty cycle - we dont use it often - perhaps once a month but when we do inevitably the job needs done in a hurry and there can be a day or twos work!

I started off looking at an R-Tech machine, but am now considering a second hand buy based on advice on the forums.

Can anyone recommend something suitable? How much we should look at spending? (I was thinking ideally £1000 but would spend more for the right bit of kit upto £1500ish)

Thanks!

 

[ronan]

You could probably pick up an older miller or lincoln, they are large heavy machines but very well made and with back-up from the manufactures.

 

[Tash]

Thanks for your help Ronan! - will keep watching FleaB.

 

[ronan]

Thats just my opinion, others here may have better suggestions for different brands.

 

[Chris Stevens]

If you can arrange a 100amp single phase supply you may well be able to find an old transformer set for well under £1000. With a lower amp supply to can still run an old transformer, just not at full power. They are big, bulky, and heavy though, and no good at all if any degree of portability is required.

 

[daleyd]

If the jobs you get 'need to be done in a hurry' is TIG the right process for you?

I was thinking that - are the people doing the welding any good at tig?

Mig can also do stainless and aluminium with the right gas and wire.

 

[Tom Orrow L]

£1000 will get you a decent ACDC TIG set. £1500 even more so..
As the lads said, if it's speed you're looking for then ally MIG could be a half decent shout.
Didn't catch watch thickness aluminium you'll be wanting to weld?

 

[Tash]

Thanks everyone.

We've always struggled with MIG for stainless and alloy and either outsourced or binned! (That may be a reflection on the quality of our existing unit and staff skill) In a hurry is a relative term in this case. Will need to do some serious training and practice though as hubby has next to no experience but most of the work is our own jobs and non critical - but once weve got it together then may think about offering it to customers. We do have help we can call upon for critical jobs if the kits up to it.

We have a 100A supply - in total for the workshops, a flat, shop and large cafe! - keeping power consumption down is a constant battle. That said, we may be able to use a large % of this in the evenings when the cafe is closed. I wonder what the maximum supply is to the workshop - will have to have a look see!

I think we need to have a really good think - we could mount on a steel frame or make a large concrete base for a large unit and mount it permanently above water level so no need to move ever. Just had a long chat with a family member who is a welder, and knowing our circumstances he recons a more portable inverter unit by murex? Miller or Lincoln would be good for us - which is not what I was envisaging,but he has much more knowledge than we do.

Im now wondering about a small portable (ish) unit for welding trailers and little jobs around the site where portability will help, with a view to a larger unit (looking to see if a miller synchowave 275 can be used on single phase) permanently mounted for more detailed work in the longer term (when funds allow) - always assuming we can find enough power.

Some difficult decisions ahead! Thanks again - you have all given me much to ponder and discuss with my other half! Definitely planning on spending more for a quality unit!

 

[ronan]

Tash, i've used miller 275's in several employers, and tech and always found them a really good plant. But they are heavy with a capital H, not really portable, and any of the ones i've used have been 3 phase. That said they are cheap, several on fleabay for around the 1k mark. Another brand to keep an eye out for are fronius. They were very popular over here a few years back and they are good too.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Not sure customers paying top dollar for marine welding work would be happy with the appearance of MIG? But then again TIG isnt going to look that great

Thanks everyone.

We've always struggled with MIG for stainless and alloy and either outsourced or binned! (That may be a reflection on the quality of our existing unit and staff skill) In a hurry is a relative term in this case. Will need to do some serious training and practice though as hubby has next to no experience but most of the work is our own jobs and non critical - but once weve got it together then may think about offering it to customers. We do have help we can call upon for critical jobs if the kits up to it.

We have a 100A supply - in total for the workshops, a flat, shop and large cafe! - keeping power consumption down is a constant battle. That said, we may be able to use a large % of this in the evenings when the cafe is closed. I wonder what the maximum supply is to the workshop - will have to have a look see!

I think we need to have a really good think - we could mount on a steel frame or make a large concrete base for a large unit and mount it permanently above water level so no need to move ever. Just had a long chat with a family member who is a welder, and knowing our circumstances he recons a more portable inverter unit by murex? Miller or Lincoln would be good for us - which is not what I was envisaging,but he has much more knowledge than we do.

Im now wondering about a small portable (ish) unit for welding trailers and little jobs around the site where portability will help, with a view to a larger unit (looking to see if a miller synchowave 275 can be used on single phase) permanently mounted for more detailed work in the longer term (when funds allow) - always assuming we can find enough power.

Some difficult decisions ahead! Thanks again - you have all given me much to ponder and discuss with my other half! Definitely planning on spending more for a quality unit!

You dont really have enough power for a big transformer, and unless you want to spend £2k+ on a new quality inverter, for £1000 you are stuck with Chinese inverter set.

In terms of quality inverters, there are often little used ones to be had for very good prices on Ebay, and a couple of weeks ago I bought a little used ESAB ready to weld for £1200, complete with all original manuals etc........

 

[Kent]

I recomend you check out ip ratings it tells you a fair bit about the care and attention that went into the box
Were are you at?

 

[Richard.]

1500 will get you a wonderful high end used acdc and with research, street smart buying you could land yourself a machine that will last years. I would aim for a 200 amp inverter. Transformers are power hungry, take up a lot of space and demand a little more skill for those intricate jobs where frequency adjustment would take over. There are some real gems out there but beware there are some dogs too so be prepared to drive the distance and come away empty handed. The general external condition of the unit and any other equipment around it will tell you a tale of how it's been treated. I buy used and have never bought a dog. I buy private owned machines only. I went to look at one a while back that was an ex business asset and you could see it had spent it's life in many hands. It worked great but for how long? I have seen a very clean magic wave 2000 advertised recently which I can personally vouch for as I've owned them in the past.

 

[Kent]

Inverters and transformers use the same power when they are welding but the inverter uses far less when it's turned on but not welding is my understanding
So turn off a transformer as soon as you ain't actually welding?

 

[Richard.]

Inverters and transformers use the same power when they are welding but the inverter uses far less when it's turned on but not welding is my understanding
So turn off a transformer as soon as you ain't actually welding?

Transformer sets draw more current, a lot more. My set will deliver an easy 200 amps plus from a 13amp plug. I doubt very much a transformer will do that. Inverters are much more friendly on the leccy

 

[Kent]

Is that realy via it being inverter? I know for instance that the 252 lorch works on a lot smaller fuse than my old kempi both transformers

Just going on what I have been told like. The inverter stores some power does it not hence the smaller input fuse for higher output
It can't actually generate power inside it can it? Got to come from some place

Heck way beyond my pay grade talking electronics

 

[PTvor]

An inverter draws less surge on power up because it has a circuit that charges its main capacitors slowly (something like half a second) through a resistor, then when the capacitors are charged, cuts in a relay to short out the resistor and you can weld. Scratching away trying to start an arc and asking someone to power on the inverter while you are doing it can damage the inverter, but almost no one does that. Without the pre-charge circuit you could have an almighty and damaging surge as you switched on the peak of a mains cycle to charge large and completely uncharged capacitors. Note the way that printers etc with switch mode power supplies dim the lights when then are switched on.

The inverter has a transformer, but it runs at 20KHz to 50KHz rather than 50Hz mains frequency as in traditional transformer designs. For various reasons, the higher the frequency, the smaller, lighter and more efficient the transformer to handle a given power.

 

[Hitch]

We bought a little portable ACDC Pulse tig last week, Jasic. Not used it properly yet, but seems nice.
200a on a 13a plug..came in just over £1000 i believe, with a 5 year warranty.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Wilkinson Star tell me the Jasic machines have outsold all other welding sets in UK put together, which is quite something if its correct.

 

[Tom Orrow L]

We bought a little portable ACDC Pulse tig last week, Jasic. Not used it properly yet, but seems nice.
200a on a 13a plug..came in just over £1000 i believe, with a 5 year warranty.

Was that the mini 200A? Weighs about 9KG all in?