What is the problem with 6013?

[BrokenBiker]

more specifically, why do the yanks hate them so much?

Watching jody and chucke2009 and they always say they hate 6013 as they are hard to run and always leave worm holes and slag traps...

After I had learnt what a close arc is and about rid angle all my problems with wormholes went away.

Surely if you can weld with a 7018 as these people do, then you should be able to weld with a 6013 as u find the technique for both to be the same unlike 6010 or 6011 that use a whip and pause action

Is it just me or is it odd that Americans don't like a specific type of rod that we use all the time

 

[HughF]

7018 you can run with your eyes closed... 6013 requires concentration, at all times, rod angle, arc length. Give it a gap, the slag will end up in there. I'm with the yanks, they're w**k rods, think I have about 20 4mm ones in stock and about 5 boxes of 7016...

They have codes that were developed around qualified procedures that were written with 7018, so that's what gets used nearly all the time for structural stuff (well, most structural is innershield, but I digress)

 

[BrokenBiker]

So 7018 are easier to run then? I've never really noticed any difference but I run them the same as I run 6013's

 

[HughF]

Much, in running about 2 boxes, never once had a single iffy joint, the puddle/slag line is as clear as mustard to see, they are easy out of position... Everyone should learn to stick weld with them then move onto 6013 where it's just a swirly mess of slag I'm firmly in the 6010/7018 camp down here...

 

[BrokenBiker]

If I had a way of keeping them properly dry and baking them without using the oven in the kitchen I would probably use more of them but seems a bit of a faff for my needs

 

[Richard.]

Both have pros and cons. The rutiles are much easier to strike/restrike, they stay well lit with any power source and can be used straight out the box.
Low hi's as Hugh said tend to be better when struck up for keeping out inclusions and produce a weld with a higher tensile strength if they are used properly (heated or out a vac pack) slag release is better on a rutile but then I personally find a low high tends to run easier out of position. I have boxes of both and use both and find them both to be equally good depending on what I'm doing. It's more important to select a good brand rather than boycot a certain type.

 

[wheresmejumper]

6013 have their own technique,every position has its own do's and don't or slag gets in there.7018 have a very different technique and can be easy in positions where 6013 are difficult,and vice versa.

 

[NickyEng]

6013 have their own technique,every position has its own do's and don't or slag gets in there.7018 have a very different technique and can be easy in positions where 6013 are difficult,and vice versa.

I use both, 6013 for general stuff and low hy 7016 Oerlikon Spezials mainly for structural stuff. Spezials are a tremendous rods in my opinion

 

[Richard.]

I use both, 6013 for general stuff and low hy 7016 Oerlikon Spezials mainly for structural stuff. Spezials are a tremendous rods in my opinion

They are very good.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I learnt on 6013, and used nothing else for a decade. Quality varies a lot, having a good brand makes a difference.

Then I tried 7018 after reading about them on here. They were cheap Parweld ones, and run off AC, but even so within half a box I'd got used to the different way they run and began to trust them, and haven't really looked back since.

It's the slag traps and worm holes that I can't stand with them. Sometimes you run a few beads and wonder why you stopped using them then suddenly knock the slag off and reveal a hideous mess that's supposed to be joining two pieces of metal together.

Now 6013 are kept for odd little bits and pieces where ease of relighting is important or for when I only have a buzzbox available to run them.

Relatively recently I've got into 6010/6011 for tacking, roots, knocked together unimportant jobs where speed matters and of course vertical.

@Kent on this forum likes 6013 as I recall, so like with a lot of things there are different views and preferences.

 

[TechnicAl]

There are a few reasons but one is that their homes and workshops have 110V supply and sometimes 2 phase 330V. They can run 6010s and get penetration but 6013s just lay on the surface.........Im not sure of the science but this is what I was told

If you look at some of the Lincoln US TIG sets they are 2 phase

There is also vast areas where there is no electricity so they use generators or engine driven welders. 6010 run better on these. The geneartors double up as pipe thawing kit.......they get a lot of frozen water pipes

 

[oilcooled :)]

Any pipe welder that has had the miss fortune of welding 1 1/2" down to 1/2"pipe in position, would b glad to see a box of 6013s. You need to be on reasonable size material to use 7018 they dig too much too much heat needed too much undercut in too small off material. Theres a risk of porosity always with 7018. 6013 there's only slag to worry about.6013 restrike and finish better.there is a variety of 6013 for slag control celulus type 6013 are best

 

[Tom Orrow L]

I learned with bohler 6013's, when I first started I laid wormhole ridden bead after wormhole ridden bead. Eventually learnt how to keep my arc distance/ angle correct & got the hang of it. Now I thoroughly enjoy using them.. but only in the flat position, anything else like vertical down I thoroughly dislike & use 7018's for it.
When I first started using 7018's I found them to be quite hard to maintain the arc after initial strike but with some practice I got used to it, also had to run them a bit hotter than I thought.

I've got some Lincoln 7018's that are very nice & also quite enjoy the Supercito's aswell.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Hmm, porosity is a (well, I think the) problem I have sometimes encountered with 7018. Generally I find them to be spot on though, and welding up things like small diameter pipes I still prefer them to 6013 once they're lit, although lighting them can be a pain.

 

[evobilly666]

If I had a way of keeping them properly dry and baking them without using the oven in the kitchen I would probably use more of them but seems a bit of a faff for my needs

I use an ammo box, has a decent rubber seal round the top. I chuck a few desiccant packs in to take any moisture out.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I use some from vac packs for the critical jobs, for more normal work they get treated the same as 6013 rods which does me for most things and I still prefer them.

 

[wheresmejumper]

The noise from 6013 changes when your slag is over running you and worm holes are forming.the crackling stops and just hisses.you have to vary arc length and rod angle if on pipe,or just turn up the amps if it's plate in 1 position

 

[HughF]

Rod guards and a 110v quiver that plugs into the engine drive, moisture problems sorted... I might revisit some 6013 I have now I've got the engine drive up and running properly, the arc force that thing has should help push the slag to where it needs to be.

@wheresmejumper that sae400 with a ford diesel is back on eBay, £500 with a remote, I'm tempted

 

[wheresmejumper]

Is that the blue one?I already have a couple at home so I have to resist

 

[HughF]

It is, in London. All up together and working too according to the YouTube video.