What gives a car the biggest off road advantage?

[Robbie260]

It really mainly comes down to two things driver skill i.e. Knowing the correct line, how to modify the obsticle to make it more compatible with your vehicles limitations and speed to take the obsticle at, and the correct tier choice for the conditions. with theses two 90% of vehicles will get 90% of places.

Factors that also help, axle articulation but the axel must still be being put pressure on by the vehicles suspension to be effective, approach, departure and ramp break over angles all help (the smaller the better) why the series 1 Land Rover and Willis jeep are so good off-road. Locking center differential, so both Axels always get 50% of the vehicles power at any one time allowing for progress when one axle has no grip at all.

Factors that are nice to have, winches but generally people do this wrong you want to winch back out of the obstacles not go further in and get even more stuck. Axle locking diff or limited slip diff, in 99% of situations these are not nessesary and traction can be regained with the use of common sense, personally would have limited slip diffs though as less stress is put on the axle components (

 

[MrFluffy]

Small flaw with the series (and defender, 101 etc...) is you've only got to loose traction with one wheel at either end, so if you manage to get in a situation where your left front and right rear is on the rock and not getting traction, your stuck unless you can bounce one end into shifting. This is what's known as being cross axled & when locking diff's on the axle itself become useful, you've only got to have one axle lock in addition to the centre diff to never get cross axled. Theyre good, but you still have to drive them accordingly...
This sounds implausible, but I've been there with a high lift jack and no winch or lockers lifting my swb landrover 90 at one corner and driving off the jack when I had 3 wheels getting traction to get out of it. Driver lesson learned skill now means I watch like a hawk for big deep holes and avoid getting cross axled, but I'd certainly like a locking diff for at least in my 101 when one comes up.

 

[PhillipM]

Or just do 90mph and bounce over the tricky bits on the floorpan

 

[octo0072000]

It really mainly comes down to two things driver skill i.e. Knowing the correct line, how to modify the obsticle to make it more compatible with your vehicles limitations and speed to take the obsticle at, and the correct tier choice for the conditions. with theses two 90% of vehicles will get 90% of places.

Factors that also help, axle articulation but the axel must still be being put pressure on by the vehicles suspension to be effective, approach, departure and ramp break over angles all help (the smaller the better) why the series 1 Land Rover and Willis jeep are so good off-road. Locking center differential, so both Axels always get 50% of the vehicles power at any one time allowing for progress when one axle has no grip at all.

Factors that are nice to have, winches but generally people do this wrong you want to winch back out of the obstacles not go further in and get even more stuck. Axle locking diff or limited slip diff, in 99% of situations these are not nessesary and traction can be regained with the use of common sense, personally would have limited slip diffs though as less stress is put on the axle components (

series 1 landy and Willis jeep neither have a center locking diff

 

[bigegg]

Basically then, if you have a winch to pull you back on-road, you're good.

 

[Robbie260]

series 1 landy and Willis jeep neither have a center locking diff

I know they have selectable 4 wheel drive was using them as examples of 4x4s with good ramp break over, approach and departure angles.

 

[Robbie260]

Small flaw with the series (and defender, 101 etc...) is you've only got to loose traction with one wheel at either end, so if you manage to get in a situation where your left front and right rear is on the rock and not getting traction, your stuck unless you can bounce one end into shifting. This is what's known as being cross axled & when locking diff's on the axle itself become useful, you've only got to have one axle lock in addition to the centre diff to never get cross axled. Theyre good, but you still have to drive them accordingly...
This sounds implausible, but I've been there with a high lift jack and no winch or lockers lifting my swb landrover 90 at one corner and driving off the jack when I had 3 wheels getting traction to get out of it. Driver lesson learned skill now means I watch like a hawk for big deep holes and avoid getting cross axled, but I'd certainly like a locking diff for at least in my 101 when one comes up.

These can be over come by enough momentum and as mentioned previously in this thread pulse breaking while driving a series Land Rover to emulate traction control.

 

[colnerov]

Fiddle brakes are an alternative to locking axle diffs, cheaper too.

 

[PhillipM]

They are, but they only work when you know which wheel is locking up, they're not great if you're in something where either wheel keeps slipping and grabbing, loose rock, etc. Same with left foot braking for traction - that only actually works if you can either use the inertia from stopping and spinning up the slippings wheels to get a bit of traction, or you have torsen diffs which can only torque bias and need something to work against.
Just dragging the brakes otherwise does nothing.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Small flaw with the series (and defender, 101 etc...) is you've only got to loose traction with one wheel at either end, so if you manage to get in a situation where your left front and right rear is on the rock and not getting traction, your stuck unless you can bounce one end into shifting. This is what's known as being cross axled & when locking diff's on the axle itself become useful, you've only got to have one axle lock in addition to the centre diff to never get cross axled. Theyre good, but you still have to drive them accordingly...
This sounds implausible, but I've been there with a high lift jack and no winch or lockers lifting my swb landrover 90 at one corner and driving off the jack when I had 3 wheels getting traction to get out of it. Driver lesson learned skill now means I watch like a hawk for big deep holes and avoid getting cross axled, but I'd certainly like a locking diff for at least in my 101 when one comes up.

Best thing for a 101 off road is a load of paving slabs in the back, get the springs actually flexing

 

[Robbie260]

Best thing for a 101 off road is a load of paving slabs in the back, get the springs actually flexing

Would agree with that drove my swb series 3 around for 5 months with a 200tdi engine in the back, the difference in the ride was phenomenal, it was actually comforatable.

 

[nickk]

driver commitment.

you'd be amazed where a transit t350 will get when driven with commitment

a good line & run up eh, what tyres are you using?

 

[dannyp]

a good line & run up eh, what tyres are you using?

bog standard van tires you know the cheep round black ones. did try putting AT tyers on the back of one once for about a day as they are a 16" rim, yes they are better in the field but on they road they were scary if the van was empty they were really really scary. so back to the tradional approach of as you say makeing sure you've got good runup and picking the best line. i like to call it mudraplaning, if your dribeing a heavy thing without much traction momentum is your friend and if going fast enough you don't have time to sink.

 

[MrFluffy]

Mk2 Transit parked in my yard full of firewood as a handy semi dry place to store extra logs, side of it ragged and screen stoved in where it went down a roadside ditch and collected some fence posts trying to keep momentum in slippy conditions. Not me driving, I know who pulled it out and the story why though.
I'd rather have a bit of grip and be in control personally, banzai and hope for the best isnt my thing. I often take my enduro out in the snow which is fun because its shod with full on motocross tyres, but the worst part of that is when I meet other people in inappropriate vehicles.

The worst thing I have in slippy conditions has to be the jcb, it has fiddle brakes and weighs 7 ton with aggressive agri tyres, but doesnt have that much ground clearance before the lower half of the skid hits the ground so they skid before it bottoms in the soft bit and just fill with mud and its stuck, and you have to walk it out with the hydraulics instead.
Doesnt help that its 2wd too. And its exit angle is terrible too (kingpost in the way).

 

[fizzy]

There was a great Top Gear test a few years ago. All the latest fancy 4x4s on a green lane. The Range Rover was the last to get stuck. The X5 the first. Then along comes an old Series LR with skinny tyres and romps past the lot of them.

I love a 110 for offroading. An auto box is better for uphill but a manual box is better for downhill. There is just so much engine braking. The ground clearance on a 110 is very good even standard. I am 6' tall and yet I can actually get my knee under the sill - pretty good!

The fancy new electronic traction and HDC works incredibly well on snowy or icy roads but for very rough offroading the traditional methods are better.

Oh and I have never used a forward mounted winch for self recovery - prefer my Tirfor!

 

[dannyp]

JCB's are terrible for slideing about, thankfully you can walk them out of a lot of things, to a point anyway, i got the old 3c2 stuck stuck a few months ago an it's still stuck some point i'm going to have to get a bigger digger and go and dig it out. i was digging out a new big pond/ lake there was 1 patch that was damp in it but as i dug down it was almost like i bust through a layer into whats basicly best described as a bog, up came the squelch and down went dorris.

 

[MrFluffy]

Yeah I just edited and removed that pic of my jcb 3c3 walking out a field it had destroyed in the process because it was a bit big, but there were parts of the garden I couldnt go into for 10 months of the year before I trenched it out. Ive had my landrover 90 on its side offroad and it wasnt fun, but it was nowhere near as terrifying as the day on a fairly mild slope the jcb went onto 3 wheels until I got the back acter swung round as a counterbalance...
Everything about them is just wrong for off road use. Hopefully the newer stuff is much more stable and carries its CoG lower etc, but I've never driven one to know.

 

[dannyp]

the last machene of that type i drove was a new holland, it felt worse than old dorris very very heavy wobbly machene, thinking about it i do miss old dorris . afer the old magor in there gave up starting in we bodged in a bigger motor 6cyl with a huge iron cased tandem pump dorris was all powerfull, with a diverter valve chould have both sides of the pump on the ram services or one side on the ram services and the other on now independant ancillary for ultimate pecker carnage. hell of a powerfull digger, if you didnt have to do mch manovering it'd outdig mates 8ton takeutchi 360 by some margin

 

[Gritineye]

series 1 landy and Willis jeep neither have a center locking diff

Rather pedantic I feel, as neither have a centre diff, once FWD is engaged they have no need or requirement to lock any further...

 

[wookie]

Having had a Def110 and still got a Willys Jeep, I much prefer the Willys it's far more capable offroad and having got both stuck up to their axles in mud I'd rather tirfor the Willys as it's so much lighter. Mind you a block and tackle makes for a good emergency tirfor when you have nothing else to hand....