What “exactly” makes 3 pin adapters so unsafe?

[hotrodder]

People don't think or, when they do, most probably think that a fuse will magically protect everything because they've never heard of a fuse time current curve and don't realise that a 13A fuse will pass ~ 20A pretty much for ever. As the current goes up the hotter things get and the faster it pops, millisecs in a proper fault. Similar deal with MCBs but they exist in various different sensitivities to avoid nusiance tripping with kit that draws lots when starting

Dunno if it's still the case but AIUI bs1363-2 calls for two gang sockets to be tested/rated by drawing 14A from one outlet and 6A from the other for X time without exceeding some temp?

Add some cheapnese/counterfit plugs & sockets etc into the mix and it's easy to see how things can get overloaded without ever drawing enough to trip the entire ring... underspec wiring as said, springclips/contacts & fuse holders that are made of mickey mouse stuff instead of the beryllium copper used in decent plugs (noticable by being a different, darker, colour to the brass pins and harder/springier)

 

[8ob]

Perhaps socket manufacturers should start to produce them with a fuse, the type you have to dig out like on switched fuse outlets. The bottom line is there is 30/32amps behind most sockets on a ring main , the potential to overload a socket is obvious to some but not all.

Bob

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Good news.
Today I acquired a new fire basket.

This lot, 50p each, all untested, some even damaged.

 

[Mee]

The real issue is with the loading, and/or surge loadings. Many people use them over their rated power and they overheat, or they have several things plugged in and run it near its maximum load rating and turn off at the switch, and turn on again at the switch. With everything being turned on at once the surge can be massive.

 

[MattF]

I use these sort of things. They're actually really useful.

I've never had one catch fire, or discolour, or heat up, or fall out.

People saying they should be banned is lowest common denominator thinking - i.e. legislation for the stupid.

Education is free in this country - if people choose to be stupid it's their own fault. My activities and the things I use shouldn't be restricted because some idiot tried to eat one once.

That's pure poppycock. A lot of areas, yes, numpties can't be protected from themselves, but with something like those adaptors, there's no valid reason for them to exist. Most people neither know, nor desire to know, much or anything about electricity and it's related areas, so it is not a case of catering to the stupid.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

@pdg
As mentioned in post above yours.
If use correctly they are not an issue, it is when they get overloaded.
That's an issue.

Since the start of this post I enquired with the HSE.
To date, no plan to ban or outlaw. But to restrict the sale to those with a serviceable fuse.
The insurance robbers will not do anything. But may not pay out if the cause is through them.

 

[rtbcomp]

They're safer than these http://www.wilko.com/extension-leads/wilko-4-way-extension-lead-5m/invt/0133997

4 way extension rated at 10 amps, nothing to stop a 13A fuse being fitted in the plug.

 

[MattF]

They're safer than these http://www.wilko.com/extension-leads/wilko-4-way-extension-lead-5m/invt/0133997

4 way extension rated at 10 amps, nothing to stop a 13A fuse being fitted in the plug.

As mrfuzzy suggests though, a fuse alteration would make that an incompetence problem, not a design problem.

 

[MattF]

I also need a special hat.

I'll agree with that portion.

 

[Robotstar5]

...shame IET was suggesting replacing everything apart from IT kit (5 amp fused generally) with either 3 or 13 amp fuses even if the original was 10amp...madness.

Being in the "trade" I've got a selection of BS1362 fuses from 1A through to 13A and fit the appropriate size. I suppose until they introduce a BS1361 style system where only the correct size fuse will fit there will still be fires.

 

[rtbcomp]

Incompetence aside, the point I was making is that the adapters are safer than the extensions. The adapters can take 13A, you can't get a BS1362 fuse bigger than 13A. So the adapters are foolproof whereas the extensions aren't, you can fit a 13A fuse in a 5A extension.

 

[MattF]

In other words, an identical 'problem' to that of multiway adaptors?

How come fitting the wrong fuse is incompetence, yet plugging in too much load isn't?

(I've checked, and a fuse is supposed to be used to protect wiring, not an incompetent user...)

Not replacing like with like is just incompetence. A layman understanding ratings, loads etc. is a different matter entirely. Besides, those block adapters are still a steaming pile of turd, no matter how many try to defend them.

 

[MattF]

Incompetence aside, the point I was making is that the adapters are safer than the extensions. The adapters can take 13A, you can't get a BS1362 fuse bigger than 13A. So the adapters are foolproof whereas the extensions aren't, you can fit a 13A fuse in a 5A extension.

Point taken in that regard, but the incompetence matter aside, (as pdg implied, fools can't be protected against themselves), one is a sound design, one is not. The quality of construction, generally, only makes matters even worse with the blocks.

 

[wookie]

I use these sort of things. They're actually really useful.

I agree they are useful, I usually use them just once a year to plug my xmas lights into the sockets I have available, perfectly safe as the load through the adaptor is well under 1amp.

That's pure poppycock. A lot of areas, yes, numpties can't be protected from themselves, but with something like those adaptors, there's no valid reason for them to exist. Most people neither know, nor desire to know, much or anything about electricity and it's related areas, so it is not a case of catering to the stupid.

We shouldn't have to cater to the stupid thus spoiling it for the rest of us, but we can protect numpties from themselves, if they insist on being ignorant about electricity then shouldn't be allowed to use it at all.

Just think what happens if you refuse to drive a car safely, either you won't pass your test or if you do have a driving license then you will loose it, perhaps there should be a license to have an electric supply to your home ?

 

[Mee]

They're safer than these http://www.wilko.com/extension-leads/wilko-4-way-extension-lead-5m/invt/0133997

4 way extension rated at 10 amps, nothing to stop a 13A fuse being fitted in the plug.

No they're not, you can fit a 13 amp fuse, you can fit a few twists of MIG wire, you can even remove the fuse and solder a piece of brass or copper strip across the fuse; similarly you can fit 3 X 13 amp appliances into a 3 way adaptor and have a 39 amp load on start up. Stupidity of a user is still stupidity and if they will abuse one they will abuse the other.

 

[rtbcomp]

^^ It's easier to abuse the extension because you can do it without going to any more trouble than fitting a fuse.

 

[Mee]

Equally you can knock the adapter with it sticking so far out of the wall, as I said earlier its six and two three's.

 

[wookie]

There are flaws with both types of adaptor and the flaw is the user, yes we can design things to be safe-ish and some designs are safer than others but the bottom line is, if the user is determined ignore the labels and abuse the adaptor then there is nothing you can do to stop them.

How many people do you know who just fit a 13A fuse to every plug regardless of the load ?

 

[nick952]

I agree. Who in their right mind, when needing "just a little more grunt" when welding and turning the amps up kept blowing the 13A fuse, would fit a piece of copper rod in its place?

I've since had installed, a couple of dedicated 32A sockets so don't panic.

 

[rtbcomp]

...

How many people do you know who just fit a 13A fuse to every plug regardless of the load ?

The problem is plugs usually come with 13A fuses fitted. Perhaps a selection of different fuses should be supplied with the plug and none fitted.