What do I need to start welding?

[Cycle Nutz]

Hi All,

I have decided to take my passion for cycling a little bit further than the norm. Instead of just riding my bikes I have been making gifts out of old bike parts to raise some money to by a welder so I can then make sculptures and models out of said bike parts.

So what do I need to buy? The list I have so far reads:
Mig Welder
Mask
Wire
Argon/CO2 Gas
Gas Valve (Does it need to be a specific valve for Argon/CO2 mix?)
Wire brush

Do I need leather gloves and apron?
Do I need a metal surface on a workbench?
What else might I need?

The biggest question is which welder? And like many I'm sure, I don't have much money at this time.

I wish to weld bike chains, sprockets, spokes, wheels, brake discs, handle bars and bits of bike frame. Butt joints and at angles. I don't envisage any thickness to be greater than 2mm, but an absolute max of 3mm may be useful.

Metals will be Steal and Aluminium.

I'm not expecting to be welding a run but rather tack things together, they only need to stand up, not drive on our lovely pot hold roads.

I believe I will best using Argon/CO2 mix?

My experience is zero, zilch, not a clue, out of my depth.

I have seen these 2 welders, I know they are cheap and I can't expect a lot but I don't think the use I will give them needs a lot.

Wolf Mig140 Gas No Gas Gasless Combination Turbo Smooth DC Mig Welder 135amp £160
Rhyas Turbo Mig Welder 135 Amp Gas No Gas Combination £145

Thanks in advance for your help and advise.

Martin

 

[eSCHEn]

Hi Martin.

First of all, welcome to the forum

I'm just a hobbiest as well but I can answer a few of your questions.

The bits you list are correct, no specific need for a wire brush as you can use a grinder or whatever to clean up the metal but a brush is nice and cheap I suppose. Gas valve (regulator) needs to match the gas you're using. Typically pure argon for TIG, argon/carbon dioxide mix (or even pure CO2) for MIG. Pure CO2 is cheaper than mix but welds are a bit messier by accounts.

Gloves yes, apron not really unless you want one. Some people weld with a lot of gear on and some people don't. I personally wear a L/S t-shirt but that's just me.

Metal surface not a necessity but things you weld get hot, fast. Wooden benches smoulder and catch fire pretty sharpish. Nothing to stop you just holding a bit in a vice or putting a smaller sheet of metal down to work on.

Other things that I find nice to have are clamps (magnetic and C-style), engineer's chalk for marking, a boom box, cups of tea and lots of patience!

The thicknesses you describe should be no effort for a wee MIG.

Mixing steel and aluminium is difficult as you'll need different wire for aluminium and (I think, SWK will correct me if not) pure argon gas.

Cannae advise on the welders apart from they look like very budget models. There's a for sale section here with nice little boxes on that come up quite frequently. I'd be inclined to get a second hand one from there rather than a new cheap one.

If you've not checked out the tutorials above then they're well worth a read - here's the MIG one.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Just to add you should get yourself a reactive (auto) mask rather than a traditional fixed shade bucket, it makes it a lot easier as a beginner.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I also use the same reg for argon, argon mix and straight CO2.

 

[Kent]

I shouldn't buy a MIG for the work you suggest. Ali bike frames need an AC capable TIG and chome moly tube as used in better bike frames is also better if TIG welded.

Some things (like brake discs) cannot be welded because they will distort.

Sorry to say it but your honestly looking at an AC/DC TIG with straight argon. AC for Ali and DC for steel and get ready for a shock because it aint going to come cheap.

Sure you can MIG ali if you buy the right set but the weld will not be up to fixing broken bike frames etc.

Sorry just re-read you making ornaments right?

 

[Bill Edwards]

I wouldn't be using CO2 as the gas of choice for thin metal, get a rent free argon/CO2 mix.


Not many on here are likely to recommend the Wolf, I don't know anything about the other you linked to but I wouldn't be expecting much. For what you have in mind they might do, or you might be better with something better, maybe second hand.

Aluminium is a problem.
Steek and aluminium don't weld together, and welding aluminium at all isn't to be used in the same sentence as affordable.
To do it you need pure argon gas (which won't work with a MIG for steel) and cheap MIG's aren't really up to it.
Ideally it would be done with an AC TIG, but these are serious money.

 

[Richard.]

I'm with Kent on this your more suitable machine is an acdc Tig. Yes you can buy a mig to do your job but it's gonna cost you dearly to do it right. I'd say realisticly u need a higher powered 170-180 ish amp mig as ally needs more power to run. You'll also need 2x bottles of gas 1 co2 or Ar/co2 mix and 1 pure argon for the ally. You'll need proper internals (liner rollers etc for the ally and these ain't cheap either.

 

[Richard.]

Avoid the ally work for now get some nice ones made out of steel first and that will be a whole lot cheaper. As bill rightly said welding aluminium isn't cheap which ever road you take.

 

[cumbriasteve]

I am going against most the advice so far:

For making ornaments out of scrap bike parts you should get the cheapest MIG you can of a decent make, this will eliminate the Ali but most scrap bike parts are steel anyways and you can save the ali to weigh in or for when you have made some money and want and can afford a better set.

As you suggest you will mostly be doing quick tacks so even the Wolf you link to, although not the best of sets would probably be sufficient for your purpose.

Personally I would go for a nice used Clarke, Butters or Cebora, and no need to go beyond around a 130 amp machine, although a 150 would be nice.

 

[Richard.]

^^ I agree if the ally is not in the mix if it is then acdc Tig is the best option.

 

[Gareth J]

- 4,1/2" angle grinder + assorted grinding, smoothing, cutting disks
- you'll probably want a drill, a decent cordless will suffice to start.
-a vice on something heavy. I managed for years on a wooden bench but something steel is nice if you can. Even bolted to a chunk of heavy RSJ is better than nowt.
-a camera to post photos of all the cool **** you weld together!

 

[Kent]

I am going against most the advice so far:

For making ornaments out of scrap bike parts you should get the cheapest MIG you can of a decent make, this will eliminate the Ali but most scrap bike parts are steel anyways and you can save the ali to weigh in or for when you have made some money and want and can afford a better set.

As you suggest you will mostly be doing quick tacks so even the Wolf you link to, although not the best of sets would probably be sufficient for your purpose.

Personally I would go for a nice used Clarke, Butters or Cebora, and no need to go beyond around a 130 amp machine, although a 150 would be nice.

For the grand sum of 70p a KG on ali the other week, you might get enough built up in a big junk pile to pay for the fuel to the scrapyard in a few years

 

[Kent]

of course you could just buy a second hand arc welder and a box on 2.5 rods for less than £100 SH and replace it with the capital you build up if you started selling the stuff you make

 

[Gareth J]

What about brazing? Bike chains aren't the easiest to weld and if you could get good at brazing, it would look nice on sculptural stuff too. Not sure if you'd need oxygen to do so but if not, could be very cheap to start...

 

[chunkolini]

I started off tinkering with old bike parts and look what happened to me.
I would say a small Mig welder for starters say 100amp would do. I had a few files, a small vice and that was about it; and I bought tools as I needed them from the funds raised by selling my work.
If you are thinking of building bikes I would say at this level mig is fine, we never had a frame fail and we built some real ****ters.
one thing never ever butt weld the forks or you will die. maybe.
First ever bike build, still going strong after ten years and has been downhill raced.

Early bike part sculptures

I dont do much of this stuff these days but it did pay for setting my up as an artist.

 

[Richard.]

^^^^ this is the way to do it. Avoid the ally start off with the minimum needed to get a few nice bits made and sold. Then buy a bit more to cover a wider ground. It's very interesting that chunkolini started off with those few things as I think I'm right in saying you teach this fine skill now and run classes. so that is your inspiration right there.

 

[Jim Davey]

You can MIG weld ally without too much trouble if you get the right drive components and liners.
Cost adds up with the different gases though.

 

[chunkolini]

I notice the original poster is obviously very interested in this thread.

 

[Cycle Nutz]

LOL. I am Iam. The Outlaws have been visiting, they have now been put on a train.

Kent, Yes, just ornaments. Coat/Helmet hooks, creatures, wall art, garden art.

chunkolini, love the creatures you made, that's the sort of thing I'd like to do. You say 'look what happened to me', do you mean if I start welding my hair will fall off my head on to my chin??, sorry couldn't resist it. You have given me new inspiration, I haven't been able to persuade my partner to let me buy another bike for a while so making one may be the way to go.

Thanks for all the advice it's all very useful and very much appreciated.

I think I will look for a second hand gas mig for now.
I have been making Xmas tree decorations and key rings, to fund new bike parts and bling for the last 6 months and am just trying my luck at earrings, cufflinks and necklaces to raise some more money. I have enough left for a new budget mig but will see what I can find second hand first.

 

[cumbriasteve]

I notice the original poster is obviously very interested in this thread.

Yes I noticed too, makes me lose interest if I am honest and 'unwatch it' which the mouse is heading to now.