Welding Training

[Welderpaul]

Evening. Got me serious head on, so bear with me please.

With a nod towards sloping off from where i am working now and truly running my own business, i am reviewing the opportunities to formalise my welding training. I have read the posts on here as well as err... the other welding forums, but could still do with a bit of direction from anyone who is in the know. (Simondrains seems to know a thing or two about this)

If/when i go on my own i need to make the business skill base as large as possible, and as such need to be able to offer welding on pressure vessels, as well as structural welding etc. - not just limited to gates and sticking peoples cars back together.

In an ideal world, i would like to sit whatever tests are needed whilst i am still where i am, so when i go off on my own i am ready to get going, not trying to get a specific certification once the job has come through the door. This would also suit from a financial viewpoint.

So, i am looking at what training is available, and which would be most suitable. I know for pressure vessel welding, you need to pass a coding test which is specific to the method of welding and position - each seems to be very specific and lasts only three years - would you need to pass a coding for each, and can i take the coding with me, or does it refer just to the job?
Similarly, for structural welding, do i personally pass the test to allow me to do this work generally, or is it specific to the job in hand.

The following is an extract from one of the websites i have been viewing and seems about the most straightforward summary, but still does not answer all my questions. Then again, it could be me being fick.


"There are two basic levels of welder certification, often referred to as Class 1 and Class 2.

Class 1 is the international coding standard for pressure vessels and pipe work e.g. ASME 1X and BSEN ISO 15614-1 2004/BSEN 287. The completed weld samples are usually subject to x-ray/ultrasonic examination and destructive testing if required by the welding code/standard.

Welding procedure and welder qualification tests are available to BSEN ISO 15614-1 2004/BSEN 287 and ASME 1X. These are witnessed by an independent inspecting authority (Lloyds Register or Zurich) arranged by Wakefield Skillcentre Ltd.

Class 2 welding or BS 4872 standard applies to a wide range of general fabrication work when an approved welding procedure test is not required. Welding tests are carried out in accordance with written instructions and the weld samples are subject to visual and destructive testing.
Welder qualification to BS 4872 standard are witnessed and certified by XYZ Skill Centre."

Much abliged. Paul sits back and waits for all the helpful responses........

 

[irondarren]

on the structural side if your bashing out some beams for bob the builder, chances are no one is going to even check to see if you have any welding qualifications (bob the builder probaly doesn't have any qualifications anyway). only time that might come into play is if your doing work for a major building company, but then with big companies you have to wait forever for the money. good money in banging a few holes in a universal beam and welding a couple of end plates on. can make a good percentage on the beams if you can get a good enough deal from the stockholder. Does depend on what sort of work you want to do paul, pressure vessals are specialist, stainless ones for the food industry (if you dont mind the polishing). I am assuming here that for stainless it would be a different coding than for steel?

http://www.centralsussex.ac.uk/employer%20services/courses/view.asp?id=4002&coursetype=pt&querystring=Engineering&campus=&browse=true check the link i know its to far away from you, but it say coding is available at extra cost, doesnt say how much lol, so i assume most colleges do the same sort of courses, with the extra coding if required

 

[MrFluffy]

When I did a welding course years (n years ) ago, one of the big things they did was have us make up a 30x100mm "pad" built up from arc weld criss crossing about 15mm in deep. Weld, slag chip, inspect, repeat ad nauseum. Then when you finished your pad, it was sawn into pieces to show you where the carbon inclusion was etc and we were rated on the results. I think this course was designed as a lead in to proper coded welding courses. If you was thinking about moving towards certification then it could be good practice to make some test pads like that. I was told by one of the other guys on the course who was coded that when they were working on pressure vessels, if they had a blow through the entire vessel had to be scrapped, ie it couldn't be plugged back in. For that work they were well paid and no chancers even got a look in at the door. That I would assume is where the sharp end/hardcore skillsets/money is in welding.

I was just on said course as part of a mech eng diploma. Mighty handy tho...

 

[Hitch]

Most of us are only class 2, which seems adequate for almost everything we do.....
If theres a big job in, that needs ASME whatever, its almost worth pricing that into the job then do whatever testing is required.
That seems to work for us anyway

Id imagine before you bother getting coded for 6g stuff, get establised for a few years, see if you get any call for it before you splash out on it.

 

[Drains]

Simondrains seems to know a thing or two about this

Righto.

First off, I only know what I know cos i've been paying attention. My experience of coding was many years ago and not something I paid much attention to then. (I wasn't a welder).

My advice is....

If you need a coding; that is, if you are pretty sure you're going to be doing coded work, decide now what type of welding you will be most likely to use. In your case Paul, that'll be stick for pressure vessels. So if you reckon you can do it, get coded in ASME IX 6G, stick root, fill and cap, on an appropriate sized pipe (lets say 4"), some schedule, whatever, and with appropriate rod types. 7016/8? But you will be testing to a WPS. Most likely the testing centre will be able to recommend a good WPS to work to.

Then for MIG, go structural, class 2.

Don't bother with tig, yet.

That way, your coded in Mild Steel stick, every position, essentially. Very nice.

But as Hitch says, price codings into the job. If you've already got the coding, well and good, but if the client is specifying a WPS, you'll almost certainly have to get the code anyway.

The advantage of having a coding (any coding) is that you can describe yourself as a "Lloyds Coded Welder", and the punters love that, even though most of the time it's totally superfluous.

And for the MIG class 2, structural, that means your covered for most of the work you'll really need a coding for.

The other thing is make sure the codings are YOURS, not the company/partnership/whatever it is you currently work for, because otherwise, it's NOT YOUR CODING!, and you can't use it.

I certainly wouldn't bother collecting codings for the sake of it. A lot of freelance welders seem to do that, as it gets them the best site jobs, and they can earn shedloads of money, but that's not what you're talking about.

Enough.

Cheers. Si.

 

[snowcat]

Ok paul excuse me if i repeat anything thats been said but I looked into this a couple of years back, I was looking at a codeing that alowed me to do med presure steam boilers,

Now the ruels and reg's change continualy so they have proberbly altered yet again, First of all I had to find out the codeing no. it easier said than done as its linked to insurance and not a "official body" once Id tracked this down I then contacted a company that deals with much of the training for BP,

Right the size of boiler I wanted to do was small under 10bar lt, So It therfore became a positional codeing although it could be welded in the flat, the size of CDS tube used for it ment that protentialy there could be verticals and overheads, The guy training said i would proberbly need a weeks training, followed by the codeing. cost to me £2500+VAT,

Now this was all well and good however with a 3year life on the codeing, and the fact I was still only coded for 1 specific job, Ie would not cover me a jot on lifting gear etc etc etc, and each boiler I made would need to be done "by a reconised prep plan and design" really made it a non starter for me.

If you get a job that's going to be worth it go for it, overwise i would not bother.

 

[steve202]

Sod the welding, become a trainer!......... 2.5k?

 

[heinz57]

Ive looked into the whole coding thing as well and ive found colleges overseas that do it for much less. Canada looks like a good bet, especially in Ontario. You could kill two birds with one stone - make it a holiday and get your ticket at the same time.

 

[the snooper]

heinz57
dont know if you realise but this thread is 3 years old

 

[jmsgas]

hi does any one know if there is a expiry date on welding quals as looking yo employ an asme ix qualifiied welder but not sure if they have to resite test every so many years like the gas safe registered fitters do (corgi) any help would be greatful


cheers

jmsgas

 

[Drains]

jmsgas. I've just copied this from UKWelder

Every six months you must confirm your welder has been welding in accordance with his qualification - usually signing and dating his certificate.
After 2 years you have have to get prolongation from Lloyds or another recognised examining body. They will generally require some form of third party testing results​

I'll add to that - whatever ASMEIX qual a welder has, it nees to be the correct qualification for the job he's doing - eg material type, thickness range, joint type, position etc. The qual also belongs to someone, and that may not be the welder whose name is on the paperl, but could be the company who paid for the test. It is therefore theirs, not the welder's! It means that as long as the welder is working for them, he's qualified, but if he's working for you, he's not! Therefore a copy of a welding qual is not a qual, it's just proof that the welder has been capable in the past of getting a qual.

Why do you need an ASME qualified welder?

 

[topdog]

Having been in the game for 40 years and bailed out recently, its noticable that highly skilled welding jobs are few and far between. I know a few guys who are struggling to find work in a specific type of welding. I just heard about a company in or around Bolton who are looking to recruit stick welders for working throughout GB on railway bridges, they got some works coming off north of the border and are looking for qualifications for single vee butt in overhead position on grade 50d steel up to 30mm thick. T.I.ENGINEERING or ti coatings I think. Hope this helps someone who is out of work.

 

[Welderpaul]

TI coatings it is. One of my lads was on about it last week. Sounds a good contract.

 

[matt1978]

Who is it Girlwelder?