Welding to cast steel

[Matchless]

what about just milling it back to square without building it up? you would need to mill or file down any added metal anyway, (2) you could mig it if it is cast steel as it will be in compression so if not 100% correct / strong it should not be a problem!

remember I am a bodger (1st class)

 

[Brad93]

Ah! Sorry. It shows how little I know about this game I remember seeing a video of an American guy spray welding onto a huge shaft in an industrial lathe. Serious stuff, that's for sure.

Similar stuff yes. Many different powders available.

 

[MalcVTR]

Don't do what I did... https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/restoring-a-post-leg-vice.77113/

Wow. An interesting thread! I've only just started reading it, but I guess there's something to avoid coming up. Thanks.

 

[MalcVTR]

what about just milling it back to square without building it up? you would need to mill or file down any added metal anyway, (2) you could mig it if it is cast steel as it will be in compression so if not 100% correct / strong it should not be a problem!

remember I am a bodger (1st class)

Haha. Thanks. I think the chances of me getting everything flat (no milling machine) are about the same as me winning the lottery . Most of the face of the jaw support is flat and it holds the new jaw square to its oppo.

 

[MalcVTR]

I’ve got some flat bar copper on the way and will give this a go sometime next week. If it goes well, I’ll post about it. If it goes badly, I’ll keep quiet Thanks for everyone’s input. Much appreciated

 

[slim_boy_fat]

If it goes well, I’ll post about it. If it goes badly, I’ll keep quiet

That's not in the spirit of the forum....

 

[Sean]

but if its cast steel it'll surely weld?

 

[brightspark]

but if its cast steel it'll surely weld?

we used to shorten the cast steel steering arms on the stockcar and weld them back together and they never snapped

 

[Turbo]

Sorry to rain on your parade but it's unlikely that vice is cast steel, most were high grade cast iron.

There are a couple of vice experts on the forum. (@CwazyWabbit & @MattF ?) I suggest you put a post up on the bench vices thread to ask their advice.

If it were me I'd clean up the broken bit, fit the jaw, fully close the vice & fill the gap up with braze. Once it's painted nobody will know!

 

[TechnicAl]

Sorry to rain on your parade but it's unlikely that vice is cast steel, most were high grade cast iron.

There are a couple of vice experts on the forum. (@CwazyWabbit & @MattF ?) I suggest you put a post up on the bench vices thread to ask their advice.

If it were me I'd clean up the broken bit, fit the jaw, fully close the vice & fill the gap up with braze. Once it's painted nobody will know!

Do you think so? I would have expected them to be steel....cast iron being a bit brittle for the hammering they get...

 

[MalcVTR]

That's not in the spirit of the forum....

Oh alright then. Failures duly reported!

 

[MalcVTR]

we used to shorten the cast steel steering arms on the stockcar and weld them back together and they never snapped

Excellent! The jaw base is not going to be subject to those stresses.

 

[MalcVTR]

Sorry to rain on your parade but it's unlikely that vice is cast steel, most were high grade cast iron.

There are a couple of vice experts on the forum. (@CwazyWabbit & @MattF ?) I suggest you put a post up on the bench vices thread to ask their advice.

If it were me I'd clean up the broken bit, fit the jaw, fully close the vice & fill the gap up with braze. Once it's painted nobody will know!

I'm not painting the vice. Whatever I do will be part of its history and add to its "patina"
Also, I want to be able to still remove the jaw. Would brazing against the jaw as you suggest not permanently fix it to the jaw base?

Is it cast steel? Very good question. When I bought the vice (£80 off eBay) I searched a lot on Paramo history which is quite hazy in places. A few places said "Hi Duty" vices were cast steel and there were other references to that being the material used, but there's nothing definitive.

I guess I could get a flap wheel onto part of the mullered surface and see what colour the sparks are? Not entirely sure what colour I'd be looking for - dull orange for cast iron, much brighter for cast steel?

 

[MalcVTR]

Do you think so? I would have expected them to be steel....cast iron being a bit brittle for the hammering they get...

Hmmm. Interesting point

 

[brightspark]

cast iron dull red sparks steel brighter for steel just take an angle grinder to a bit under the vice

 

[MalcVTR]

cast iron dull red sparks steel brighter for steel just take an angle grinder to a bit under the vice

Thanks for that

 

[Turbo]

The early Record 'unbreakable' vices like the 110 & 112 were made of cast steel but they switched to using 'SG iron' which was a more ductile cast iron less likely to break, used on the 34 series vices.

A way of knowing if it is cast steel is the finish on the casting, steel doesn't cast nicely & needs more finishing. Look inside the vice under the static jaw, if it's steel the metal will be a lot thinner than a cast iron vice & the finish will be rougher. On my 111 steel record the metal is very thin on the non structural parts.

As far as I know Paramo & Record were closely linked, their vices were nearly identical so I would imagine that they used similar materials.

 

[Matchless]

cast iron dull red sparks steel brighter for steel just take an angle grinder to a bit under the vice

for this repair in compression either material will mig weld, if you clamped a piece of copper in place of the jaw you can weld up against it, very little filing needed,

 

[TechnicAl]

Cast steel can be various different compositions from mild steel to stainless, and obviously the properties will vary. Casting is simply the method used to shape it.

 

[MalcVTR]

for this repair in compression either material will mig weld, if you clamped a piece of copper in place of the jaw you can weld up against it, very little filing needed,

Thanks. That's my plan . Just waiting for the copper now.

Someone once told me you can't weld to cast iron as it will go "glass hard"...