Welding on the road..

[8est]

It's a bit long winded so I apologise now! I've started down the road to learning the art of mig welding in the last year to do car repairs and restoration for myself, I'm not much good and need more practice! (Just pointing out that I'm still a bit clueless when it comes down to the technical side of welding!)

Anyway to my question, I'm hoping in the future to embark on a trip to Australia by road with a couple of friends, visiting as many countries as we can on the way, the idea being that it'll take 8 or 9 months in a 30 year old 4x4 and possibly towing a sankey ex-army trailer. We will need to be fairly self sufficient and one of the things I'm concerned about is the ability to get ourselves out of a bind should something snap or crack in the middle of nowhere, such as an oil pan or a suspension mount and recovery will in some cases almost be out of the question and other cases cost thousands of pounds!

So really I'm talking about a back up plan here, space and weight will be at a premium on the vehicle, but it's nice to know you can get out of a situation should the need arise. I've come across battery welding with metal coathangers which seems to be the norm in some parts of Africa (seriously!!) but I don't want to kill my batteries and was wondering and bear in mind it's not something that'll be used everyday, if a smallish genny and arc welder might be a better option as the genny could also be used when camping.

Is it possible to weld with an arc welder for short periods of time using a small genny and what welder/genny combination would you think might be a suitable in this case? It wont need to do fantastic welds, just enough to get us back on the road to a garage where the vehicle could be repaired properly. Cost will also be an issue, I don't want to spend a fortune, in all probability I'd be looking for second hand equipment.

So that's my conundrum, hope you guys could give me a bit of guidance and cheers for bearing with me!

 

[dan.taylor.1]

You can buy welder/generator combo units like mosa or genset.

Dan

 

[clift_d]

I've never tried one, but it might be worth getting hold of a ReadyWelder to try before you go.

They are a bit pricey but will probably be cheaper than a combo unit, and certainly a lot more portable.

 

[BrokenBiker]

just as a back up to this really check out youtube for welding with car batteries. 3 batteries, a torch and return leaf and fairly decent get out of trouble welds

 

[madkayaker]

I can kind of see why you would want to have a welder with you but welding is a fairly universal skill so I bet could be found fairly easily should the need arise. I think vehicle preparation would be better use of money rather than expensive kit that might not be used or needed.

That said Landrover offered a mig kit for defenders with a reconfigured alternator and a wire feeding torch. Camel trophy support vehicles used them.

http://diy-welder.com would be a good place to start reeding it's designed by shenion who is a member here

 

[Andy south east]

I agree with dan taylor
Mosa do a awesome compact welder generator. Used to do all my on site welding with it.

 

[8est]

Cheers guys for the replies!

I suppose my hair brained idea of a cheapy stick welder and something like a 2000w genny is out of the question then?

I'd previously thought that welder generators were just for welding but now having read a tiny bit about them it looks like they can be used as a generator by itself, is this the case for most? That would be a big bonus in my mind as it'll have a dual purpose, although they are pricey, perhaps I could get a fairly decent one second hand? It will necessarily have to be the smallest/lightest I can get though.

I think I'd have to rule out the readywelder, although it looks like it would be fantastic as a space saver the price of a new one is beyond what I'd be prepared to spend and I doubt they would come up very often 2nd hand in the UK?

I intend to have a dual battery setup on the truck (ie. one for starting and a leisure battery) and don't particularly want to carry extra batteries because of dead weight, plus if I did have to use the batteries there's always the risk of knackering them up so I can't get the vehicle going again as well as causing possible problems with batteries down the line. So really an absolute last resort in my eyes.

Madkayaker - I absolutely hear what you're saying regarding vehicle prep and that really is at the forefront of my mind! However, we intend to get well off the beaten track, in fact one of the areas we're considering going to is southern Mongolia to visit the Altai mountains and Gobi desert - it's one of the remotest places on the planet and I doubt there'll be that many welders around there and my biggest fear is not breaking down say 50 miles from somewhere that can undertake repairs but hundreds of miles. Hence my caution (and I do like to err on the side of caution). The weldernator is a good idea though whether I'll have the time and patience to build one remains to be seen - I have yet to finish restoring my 4x4, so have plenty on my plate! If I did take a genny as well for power it could be a small one which is a big plus as would be the cost - could be pretty cheap?

Plenty to contemplate and investigate, really appreciate your responses, feel free to put forward any other ideas, I'm all ears! Sorry if it all seems a bit airy fairy but we're still at the planning stage and as I said I'm still in the process of restoring my vehicle - a gas guzzling, 1986 Mercedes G Wagon. It's mainly bodywork restoration for which I intend taking the body off the chassis and hopefully I'll have improved my welding beforehand! If not I'll have to find someone reasonably priced but we'll see. I think my Mig welding is getting there-ish! It'll be a trip of a life time and one that has been at the back of my mind for years so I'm probably a bit obsessive about it!

 

[Rudi McAnichal]

Although you will find MMA facilities in most towns, be prepared for (A) very low OCV on account of low mains voltage and/or poor quality leads and clamps; (B) limited choice of electrodes.

Take your own electrodes, in sealed containers. Many 6013s will run at low voltage, but there is less choice if you want something specialised for welding suspension components.

If you think you might need to borrow/hire a welder and do the work yourself, take your own eye protection.

 

[DrNik]

How about when they take the regulator out of an alternator and use it to do welding, look quite easy. Google it, plenty of vids on youtube

 

[MattF]

Are you doing all of the trip in one vehicle with no backup?

 

[clift_d]

As an aside, if you are planning a road trip like this, then can I suggest that you get a copy of the following book and read it thoroughly:

The Vehicle-dependent Expedition Guide by Tom Sheppard - you can buy the 3rd edition from his website here.

This guy has forgotten more about doing overlanding by vehicle than most people will ever know, and the book is packed full of information on vehicle selection, preparation, driving techniques, navigation, safety, etc, etc. It is the standard guide recommended by the Royal Geographical Society to people planning vehicle based expeditions.

 

[8est]

Are you doing all of the trip in one vehicle with no backup?

Absolutely! Although we'll have a satellite phone and a gps tracker with us. Hence I'd like to have back up solutions in place ahead of time.

Nik - I think this is covered with the 'weldernator', something I am looking into, I wonder though if it'll be better to have something separate in case I have to weld anything near the engine. I'm undecided though and it'll require further investigation.

Rudi - The only sentence I understood involved taking my own eye protection! Can you explain the rest? Treat me like an id*ot and you're halfway there!

Clift - it's on the 'to buy' list! I've got and read through at least half a dozen times Chris Scott's - Overlander's Handbook which is really good. Tom Sheppard though is the undisputed king of overlanding. He goes to the Sahara regularly by himself! The last few trips in a Mercedes G Wagon (albeit in a newer one than mine), so we'll be in good company!
EDIT: Oh and last I looked, Tom sheppard's book was out of print but having looked just now courtesy of your link it seems he's had some more in so I'll get my order in. Cheers!

 

[the snooper]

Rudi - The only sentence I understood involved taking my own eye protection! Can you explain the rest? Treat me like an id*ot and you're halfway there!

Although you will find MMA facilities in most towns, be prepared for
arc welding facilities
(A) very low OCV on account of low mains voltage and/or poor quality leads and clamps;
low open circuit voltage from welder to welding rods due to bad power supplies and/or poor quality leads and clamps
(B) limited choice of electrodes.
maybe the wrong type of welding rod for any given job
Take your own electrodes, in sealed containers.
Many 6013s (rod type) will run at low voltage, but there is less choice if you want something specialised for welding suspension components.

If you think you might need to borrow/hire a welder and do the work yourself, take your own eye protection.

you got the last one

 

[clift_d]

Rudi - The only sentence I understood involved taking my own eye protection! Can you explain the rest? Treat me like an id*ot and you're halfway there!

I'll try to translate:

MMA facilities - Manual Metal Arc welding facilities
OCV - Open circuit voltage
Electrodes - arc welding rods
6013s - 6013 mild steel arc welding rods

All sounds like good advice to me.

Edit: snooper beat me to it

 

[the snooper]

I'll try to translate:

MMA facilities - Manual Metal Arc welding facilities
OCV - Open circuit voltage
Electrodes - arc welding rods
6013s - 6013 mild steel arc welding rods

All sounds like good advice to me.

Edit: snooper beat me to it

great minds think alike

 

[8est]

Methinks I've got some reading to do on arc welding as I am a complete idio.. uh, novice! I'm still trying to get to grips with the finer points of Mig welding. Do rods deteriorate over time? Is that why they have to be sealed?

 

[8est]

Actually now I come to think of it from what I've already read and what Rudi has pointed out (with Cliff and Snooper's translation!!), it kind of makes sense why I've read about so many failure's after other overlander's have had repairs done at sort of back street welder shops in the back of beyond. It kind of points towards the need for my own back up in my mind. If I was taking a brand new vehicle I wouldn't worry so much but even though I'm completely stripping my vehicle down I'm still worried that metal fatigue cold be lurking and there's always the chance of a mishap occurring.

 

[madkayaker]

Wish you look and take lots of photos but I wouldn't consider it without a second vehicle

 

[DrNik]

Just buy a Toyota 4x4 or a landrover. The parts are available worldwide, you cannot anticipate every eventuality, apart from that unless you are competent welder your repairs can actually weaken or damage your vehicle further, there will be people that are competent on your way that would have equipment on hand, just take extra money to pay them for their help, biggest things would be winch,land anchor,spare wheels,ramps,plenty of jerrycans,satellite phone.
Oh and damaging a couple of batteries with a coat hanger is the least of your worries, but wouldn't be able to resurrect a suspension part

 

[DuffyBB]

Slightly off on a tangent, but there was a thread about an army handbook with in the field fixes...would be worth a read for you as well I would have thought.