Welding High carbon steel

[NTwoO]

I'm contemplating making a snowboard. It'll be a bit of a crazy project that will try to incorporate a number of radical ideas. One of them will entail getting around the fragile rail design of a thin metal strip. To make this design work, I need to weld some spring steel (0.7% carbon) components together Once welded together, I'll have it tempered and continue the construction. Do you guys have any tips on welding this?

 

[hotrodder]

Depending on the actual alloy off the top of my head i suspect you would probably looking somewhere around the 300-500*C area for preheat (reheat after welding and slow cool). However presumably we're still talking about a very small cross section as with regular board rails/edges? If that's the case then preheat should be less critical than with larger pieces and you'd probably get away with getting it hot, welding, maybe heating again and then slow cool (bury in sand etc)?

Presumably hardness (edge retention) is what's needed rather than spring properties? Might make life easier as (if it's small cross section) you may be able to use one of the dissimilar wires that are often used for tool and die repair and avoid re tempering? Probably wrong because of the carbon content of the base but 312 comes to mind

 

[NTwoO]

Thanks for the feedback, Hotrodder.

The Idea I am playing with is to make the whole base of the snowboard (not just the rails) from spring steel. Once constructed (or beforehand, of course) I want to check out some companies that do steel tempering and have the whole base tempered to make it original spring steel. This sheet of steel will have the lugs for the bindings welded onto it. On top of the springsteel base I'll place a wood/glass fibre top for dampening. The sheet steel at the bottom must be strong enough to handle the rocks and other rubbish the off piste might throw my way

 

[NTwoO]

Maybe a thin base of 0.8mm Stainless will do the trick better. The wood will do the flex and the stainless will just have to join the ride... Its also easier to source.

 

[hotrodder]

I can't see a full size metal base working myself. Even at 0.8mm going to make for one heavy board and with the edges that thin there'll surely be less strength than the current bonded rails or are you planning to weld rails to a thin sheet? Metal base will also be slower than a sintered base

I suppose if a (very thin) metal sheet were attacked with a hole saw (full on 'swiss cheesed') and had rails welded to it there may be less chance of busting a rail and delaminating the board but putting the 'rocker' in would be a right bitch, especially with welding distortion to contend with

I would think you'd still need to rely on laminated wood and glass/carbon to get the spring into the board as stiffness varies so much along it's length

 

[NTwoO]

I can't see a full size metal base working myself. Even at 0.8mm going to make for one heavy board and with the edges that thin there'll surely be less strength than the current bonded rails or are you planning to weld rails to a thin sheet? Metal base will also be slower than a sintered base

Then why are the volant skis so pig expensive and still sold after 20 years? it should be OK. I thought of adding a rail on top of 0.8mm base and maybe some gause to glue/laminate the wood/fiberglass onto.

I would think you'd still need to rely on laminated wood and glass/carbon to get the spring into the board as stiffness varies so much along it's length

Yep! Glassfiber top and the binding screws welded onto the base... Carefully to minimise distortion.

 

[snowcat]

as said weight is surely your enemy, I personally have always ridden lib-tech boards because of the weight to size, mainstream mfrs were not offering...

However Burton have just realesed a carbon fibre board with Ti edges, iv heard rave reviews and its supposed to be feather light.....

surely a boards different to skis as your float on powder whilst a ski will sink whatever?

 

[hotrodder]

Skis!! Sorry had no idea metal skis existed. Never really given it a second thought but i'd guess a board has a significantly greater surface area than skis and thus the weight penalty would be significantly higher?

I suppose a lot would depend on the type of riding... mines a Ride Kink so a soft floppy thing but ideal for me as i spend most of a snowboarding hol trying to hurt myself in the park. Weight would be less of an issue for a carving board but still much harder work imo

Snowcats mention of Ti would be ideal... light, tough, springy and hard enough to take an edge


How deep are your pockets

 

[NTwoO]

I'm thinking about an off-piste board with something like the Volkl Selecta tail.
In the off-piste the weight will definitely slaughter you. Will have to do some calculations on the weights. I only ever snowboarded, but since I grew up in SA, I never really got the ski/snowboard axe grinding thing. The Volant skis were only named to show that the tech of using a steel base can easily work and should not be slow. At 110kgs I am too heavy for the snow park and only run through it to do carves against the ramp walls.

 

[snowcat]

I suppose a lot would depend on the type of riding... mines a Ride Kink so a soft floppy thing but ideal for me as i spend most of a snowboarding hol trying to hurt myself in the park. Weight would be less of an issue for a carving board but still much harder work imo

Snowcats mention of Ti would be ideal... light, tough, springy and hard enough to take an edge


How deep are your pockets

Burton's board is circa a £1000 I think at the mo, the problem is I guess is even freerideing boards are expected to preform to some extent as a park board, tho my park days are behind me, I still want a board that will grab and kick and do small tricks off walls obstacle's etc, so weight on any board will be an issue......

as said iv always ridden lib techs except as a beginner and there very innovative trying new designs and ideas and have boards using wood and risers to provide stiffness, I currently have a darks series which has a curved edge to provide extra traction and carve.....

Good luck with your build, be interested to see how you get on, worth trying a few ideas if you have the time and money, you might just hit the jackpot, and become an exclusive board shaper