Welding/forum Newbie advice please

[bones]

Afternoon all, could anyone give there opinions on my welding attempts please.

Over the winter I'm hoping to construct a custom engine cradle for my brothers Westfield. Obviously the strength of weld is very important.

I've been practising on some box section (2mm wall thickness) with welder on max power and wire speed set at 8 of 10 but there doesn't seem to be much penetration.

Should i be expecting/needing to see the weld break through the back to ensure good penetration?

And the back:

 

[Wozzaaah]

Afternoon/evening Bones, welcome to the forum. They don't look too bad at all to be honest. What welder are you using and what wire size? I'm guessing it's a hobby mig as you've already said you did that on maximum power.

 

[Hitch]

That doesnt look bad at all, about right infact. Much hotter and you may find yourself with undercutting problems.

One thing to practice, start at the begining of the joint, and finish at the end! Something i used to have trouble with!

 

[bones]

Afternoon/evening Bones, welcome to the forum. They don't look too bad at all to be honest. What welder are you using and what wire size? I'm guessing it's a hobby mig as you've already said you did that on maximum power.

Cheers
As you have guessed it is a hobby type welder (Clarke 150TE) and I've been using 0.6 wire.

One thing to practice, start at the begining of the joint, and finish at the end! Something i used to have trouble with!

When you say start and finish, do you mean start/finish on the rounded part of the edge, therefore having to turn round the corner?.

 

[malcolm]

One think I didn't realise for a long time is you aren't supposed to penetrate all the way through a fillet joint like that.

The idea seems to be to make sure the weld thickness is greater than the metal thickness. The fact it's on a bit of a curve is neither here nor there.

 

[Welderpaul]

Some good attempts there, the penetration is fine judging by the heat pattern on the inside of the box section - with that thickness of steel it is a fine line between adequate penetration and blowing a big hole!
Start and end the weld with your torch slightly angled around the corner of the box section, making the start and stops meet up and fuse together are particularly important to prevent moisture entering the box section which can cause corrosion from the inside. A bit of practice with the start and stops (tie - ins) will mean it will look like a continuous weld. Looking good tho.

 

[Wozzaaah]

I'd suggest going up to 0.8mm wire as well. 0.6mm is ok for thin stuff like bodywork but for 2mm box, 0.8 would be better.

 

[bones]

Thanks all for your replies, some good info there.
I'll keep practising and post some more pics.
For anyone interested here's the Westy with its
Fireblade engine.

 

[chippinghammer]

welds

Good evening/day bones. Your welds do look pretty good, as mentioned before you need to tie in just past the corners and another thing you might try if your worried about penetration, The piece being welded onto the frame, "in your case the small piece of square" might have better penetration if you put a small 22 degree bevel on it with a grinder. good luck.

 

[bones]

Ok, I've been having a play again and trying out some of the advise given.
So changed to 0.8mm wire (still on max voltage) but turned the wire speed down from 8 to 6 after blowing a few holes. Also had quite a few attempts at starting and finishing on the corners. Its amazing how much wire fires out before you realize you've run off the end of the weld
So here's some pics of the best one, and no i'm not showing you the others.

And the next question: whats the best way to do the following weld where there's a gap between the metal?

 

[shenion]

Looks good. i would do a bit more weave at start to help fusion to both sides (and puts in more heat.)

When doing fillets like you have, the lower piece will draw more heat, so you need to angle the gun a bit vertical from 45 to put more heat in the bottom piece. If you had cut a hole for the piece, then both pieces would heat the same.

Gaps are no problem, just zig-zag over it. May need a bit less power if there is a gap as you have less metal to heat up and it will penetrate easier.

 

[chippinghammer]

Ok, the qustion is, the gap between pieces, is it a structural weld or an ornamental weld? In other words are you gonna put alot support on the gapped piece. If you are, you should cut another piece steel and start over again. That being is that the filled gap may be weakend by the filler weld. If however there's no heavy supporting on that particular piece, or there are more supports to help with the load than you need not cut another piece the one piece will suffice.

 

[bones]

Ok, the qustion is, the gap between pieces, is it a structural weld or an ornamental weld? In other words are you gonna put alot support on the gapped piece. If you are, you should cut another piece steel and start over again. That being is that the filled gap may be weakend by the filler weld. If however there's no heavy supporting on that particular piece, or there are more supports to help with the load than you need not cut another piece the one piece will suffice.

At this point, and for the sake of practice i would have to assume that every joint would have significant forces on it (holding a 180bph motorcyle engine in place).
but until we get the engine in place and a frame tacked together I'm not sure which ones will take the most force.

Is what you are saying is that just butting to pieces of box section together would not be suitable for any significant forces? if so how should the joint be made?
cheers
Bones

 

[chippinghammer]

re to bones

Ok, on your pictures you show the weld, correct? now, on the small piece welded to the large piece, that same side should be the one with a 20 degree bevel to ensure a deep and strong penetration weld. That bevel ensures more penetration by widening the groove to be filled, by adding more weld.

 

[bones]

Ahh right, now i understand. doh!
Thanks.