welding and energy saving

[jimbo1962]

I think that most of our elecrtric bill will be simply down to welding and Im wondering are there better ways to weld or more efficient welders. I do most of my welding with an old Pickhill 440v stick welder, if I use 2.6 mm rods where I would normally use 3.0mm are you saving anything with the reduced current or is the saving offset by the longer time required to build up a good weld?
Do brand new machines in general use less power due to their design ?

 

[zzr1200]

I would imagine you would save more by investing in a single phase 140/160/200amp dc inverter welder if your not welding all the time...

You wouldn't get a 180amp oil cooled single phase welder to run from a 13amp plug but I can run my 140amp dc inverter from a 3 pin plug and I suspect a 160/200amp unit would also.

 

[Munkul]

Do brand new machines in general use less power due to their design ?

yes, loads less compared to an older transformer. Practically nothing at idle, and they are far more efficient under load. But how much welding do you do? Will it really make a big difference to your bill?

if I use 2.6 mm rods where I would normally use 3.0mm are you saving anything with the reduced current or is the saving offset by the longer time required to build up a good weld?

You're not saving anything here because you still (probably) want to be putting down the same size of weld bead. You'll just go slower.

 

[Moose McAlpine]

You wouldn't get a 180amp oil cooled single phase welder to run from a 13amp plug but I can run my 140amp dc inverter from a 3 pin plug and I suspect a 160/200amp unit would also.

My EWM's been run at 230A on a 13A plug without issue.

 

[GRW]

"Loads less compared to an older transformer".

Q: what about a newer Transformer Mig (instead of an Inverter unit).
I'm guessing my pretty new Oxford MigMaker 180-1 might use a bit more juice maybe than its Inverter power equivalent.... but is there much in it?

 

[zzr1200]

"Loads less compared to an older transformer".

Q: what about a newer Transformer Mig (instead of an Inverter unit).
I'm guessing my pretty new Oxford MigMaker 180-1 might use a bit more juice maybe than its Inverter power equivalent.... but is there much in it?

I'm sure your correct, but we are talking Old School Stick Welding here. Even a 140amp small oil cooled stick welder is very heavy (80Kg approx?) compared to a shoe box style inverter MMA welder (5KG approx)

 

[Turbo]

A transformer welder like your Pickhill wastes a lot of electricity heating up the transformer plus it is running all the time whether you are welding or not, making them inherently inefficient.
A modern inverter uses electronics to produce the welding current plus its only on demand so they are vastly more efficient than a transformer unit. The only downside is that they will have a significantly lower duty cycle than your Pickhill.

 

[Munkul]

Some machines draw more apparent power at idle, but are more efficient under load. Some are not bad idling, but draw a load of power under load.
Bear in mind that all transformers will be on a scale somewhere regarding power factor and apparent power usage. A transformer is a inductive load so the power factor is not great.
An inverter has a much smaller inductive load and can convert mains AC to welding current much more efficiently.
However...
Complicated older sets like AC/DC squarewave TIG sets will draw a lot more apparent power than a simple AC stick welder like the Pickhill. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

At an educated guess, the Pickhills aren't too bad idling, but you'd have to measure it to know. They definitely aren't as efficient under load as a quality inverter, though.
Unless you're using your Pickhill every day and burning many kilos of rods a week then I doubt it's a large proportion of running cost.

 

[jimbo1962]

I am using it every day but a 5kg pack of rods would last a week, its just that Im very careful about lights etc and turn machines off when Im finished and I suspected that its the mainly the welding keeping the leccy bill high.

 

[Munkul]

I am using it every day but a 5kg pack of rods would last a week, its just that Im very careful about lights etc and turn machines off when Im finished and I suspected that its the mainly the welding keeping the leccy bill high.

That's a decent enough amount of rods to think about changing machines... what size rods do you burn?

If anything under 4mm i'd personally reccomend a 160 amp Kemppi, Fronius or Lorch, EWM or Miller. You can run all of these all day long off a 13 amp plug on 3.2's which can make life really easy. Their power factors and efficiencies are really low, and they have all sorts of features to make life easier for you.
I'm surprised you wouldn't go to MIG for 5kg of welding a week?

Last week I burned half a kilo of rods off someone else's household supply no worries. That was on an IFL 200 amp TIG set which shouldn't be, but is, a really sweet stick set.

 

[Jan-DIY]

Over here in EU we are forced to implement 2019/1784/eg. Transformer welding systems are nearly banned because of efficiency.

 

[Morrisman]

If you have a smart meter you could set it to show usage by the hour, do a bunch of welding, and see just how much it reads after. Or get someone to watch it while you are welding to see the rate of consumption.

 

[Barking Mat]

Over here in EU we are forced to implement 2019/1784/eg. Transformer welding systems are nearly banned because of efficiency.

That's interesting, never knew that.

 

[Moose McAlpine]

That's interesting, never knew that.

Bet you're using transformers left, right and centre. You absolute criminal.

 

[Barking Mat]

Bet you're using transformers left, right and centre. You absolute criminal.

Guilty as charged.

 

[zzr1200]

Guilty as charged.

SSSHHHHHH........................

 

[Jan-DIY]

It will count on new machines after launch. It also will take a while to adopt these regulations here but manufacturers are now phasing out transformers.

 

[Jan-DIY]

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32019R1784&from=EN

 

[Moose McAlpine]

Guilty as charged.

Straight to jail! Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 amps.

 

[Stueeee]

Bet you're using transformers left, right and centre. You absolute criminal.

Guilty as charged.

As Al Murray (The pub landlord) said: "where would we be if nobody obeyed the rules -France, that's where"