Welding advice

[Daveytn]

Hey guys im new here, just posted in the introduction section.

I have a 2001 Ford Fiesta and if your a car fan you'll know.. it's rotting!

I have always been interested in welding but have never acted upon it, and now is a perfect time for me to start. I need something thats capable of basic patchwork repairs and possibly some exhaust welding but thats not essential.

Been looking online at machinemart/ebay etc and gasless seem to be reasonable for around the £100 mark. I understand gas is better for finish and penetration etc, but is it essential I go down the gas route? I'm not after pretty welds just keeping my car hole free

Well yeah, im open to any advice thats on offer!

Davey

 

[Richard.]

Regard to gas gasless it's not essential but There is many advantages to using gas and even nicer if it's an Ar mix. The gasless wire runs hotter which makes thin body work hard for a good welder and a nightmare if your learning. It's also spattery. Been gasless it forms a slag on top to protect from the atmosphere this makes it susceptible to inclusions if not cleaned properly. This also makes it more difficult to perform the "thin metal technique " as you will be tacking on top of the slag. It's not impossible but a clean solid wire with a nice ArCO2 shield is well worth the extra investment.

 

[Kent]

If your thinking it will be cheaper and quicker than paying someone, usually it aint! I shouldn't buy a £100 gasless MIG for anything, yes I once used one it was the worst piece of junk.

I don't know what it will cost to set up with a cheap MIG capable of car work (as its not what I should buy) but with a small re-fillable bottle of gas, regulators, consumables, visor and PPE but I am guessing at over three times the amount at least £300+? Then there is the grinders and other bits, hours of practice etc.

If its to learn new skills and or hobby great go for it

Best advice should you decide is don't start without lots of practice on scrap (working down in thickness to that of the car) and don't start practicing straight off on proper joints build a bead pad!

 

[Def110TDi]

My first mig swetup included
a wolf 140, great machine £150
20 litre arg/carbon dioxide £120 (don't waste your money messing about with disposables)
Decent auto darkening mast £70
5kg mig wire £15
Then obviously all the other stuff like angle grinders and discs for dressing welds

 

[Daveytn]

Well initially the idea was to be able to get it done myself cheaper then paying someone. The frustrating thing is I am an experienced mechanic and somewhat of an expert in the field when it comes to my particular model of car (always doing work for friends with the same cars!) but the one thing that fails me every time is .. oh, its rotted through AGAIN. If i was to fully go about removing all rust from my car, i'd need to do rear arch panel replacements which obviously someone in my position isnt going to be able to do in any time soon.

Ideally I want to achieve a quick fix (after some practice obviously) for mot in June time, but I'd like to grind back all the underseal there is from factory to bare metal cut out any rust patch it up and underseal it so it's safe for another few years. Some light exhaust fabrication might be in the mix once I became confident, but i'd preferably stick to the bodywork repairs as this is the 5th Fiesta I have owned now due to loosing them to dreaded rust!

To give you an idea of what I'd need to do, this is the absolute worst of it.

 

[Def110TDi]

I'd say get yourself set up with what you can if you want to add another feather to your cap being an experienced mechanic, another service you can provide, but its practice, patching cars is fine once you've got the knack of it

 

[Kent]

Fair enough, if its an add on to your trade it will eventually pay you back in new skills learnt, if you buy kit that's half decent but it will cost more than you think though! However the cheaper option as you probably know is to sell the rusty one for as much as you can get while still in mot
I have never been a fan of little patchwork quilt cars, it gets them through another MOT but never really fixes them long term

 

[Richard.]

If your thinking of taking on the welding to save yourself a few quid there are lots of ways you can get that cost right down without buying all the welding gear and learning to weld. As you'll know 80% of the cost in jobs like that is labour.
So when you come across it you should cut all the rust out and grind it back to solid metal and a bit more.
Then you should source the plate you need and cut/bend/prep it to fit perfectly over the area so the welder literally has to spot it on. Tell him not to finish it sand it etc you can do all that with limited tools, doing it this way cuts the cost by half or more.
If on the other hand you actually want to do it all yourself ignore everything I've said and crack on.

 

[norlander]

If your thinking of taking on the welding to save yourself a few quid there are lots of ways you can get that cost right down without buying all the welding gear and learning to weld. As you'll know 80% of the cost in jobs like that is labour.
So when you come across it you should cut all the rust out and grind it back to solid metal and a bit more.
Then you should source the plate you need and cut/bend/prep it to fit perfectly over the area so the welder literally has to spot it on. Tell him not to finish it sand it etc you can do all that with limited tools, doing it this way cuts the cost by half or more.
If on the other hand you actually want to do it all yourself ignore everything I've said and crack on.

Thats a very good idea, because you will get an idea of what is inolved in the preparation of the job right up to the point of welding, without the outlay on welding gear. With most jobs, prep is the greater part of the time, welding often only takes a few minutes.
If you find the cutting out and prep a major pain and decide its not for you, then you have not spent money on welding gear. You may have to buy a small angle grinder and cup brush, but they can be got for small money and are always handy to have.
If you decide to buy a welder, I would try to get something decent which will run gas or gasless. My personal choice is the gys as sold by weldequip, but you should look at the R Tech site because they have an easy payment option so you can spread the pain and maybe include a decent gas set up as well. The R Tech kit has been reviewed by doubleboost who is a mechanic so have a look at his videos.
You might also want to look at some of the threads of members work on car renovation projects to what is sometimes involved.

 

[Kent]

If your thinking of taking on the welding to save yourself a few quid there are lots of ways you can get that cost right down without buying all the welding gear and learning to weld. As you'll know 80% of the cost in jobs like that is labour.
So when you come across it you should cut all the rust out and grind it back to solid metal and a bit more.
Then you should source the plate you need and cut/bend/prep it to fit perfectly over the area so the welder literally has to spot it on. Tell him not to finish it sand it etc you can do all that with limited tools, doing it this way cuts the cost by half or more.
If on the other hand you actually want to do it all yourself ignore everything I've said and crack on.

Well, I agree but it is just an idea. I cant bring myself to say all welders will want to do the job this way unless they agree in advance as two things come to mind 1. is it still worth their while fanatically (come to you and half a day working is half a day lost, 2hrs is pure direct expenses) 2. is the prep going to meet their ask (cut too much or too little out, make the new bits wrong with poor fit up etc.) You totally going to have to find the guy and ask the questions and agree prior.
.

 

[Wallace]

Be prepared for your heart to sink when you start knocking the rot out of that small area as to how big the hole gets.

 

[Richard.]

Well, I agree but it is just an idea. I cant bring myself to say all welders will want to do the job this way unless they agree in advance as two things come to mind 1. is it still worth their while fanatically (come to you and half a day working is half a day lost, 2hrs is pure direct expenses) 2. is the prep going to meet their ask (cut too much or too little out, make the new bits wrong with poor fit up etc.) You totally going to have to find the guy and ask the questions and agree prior.
.

Yep these points you make are spot on Kent. Check with the welder first. If I was the guy welding it I'd be happy to do it like that (providing the prep work was to a good standard) as it then becomes an easy job.

Be prepared for your heart to sink when you start knocking the rot out of that small area as to how big the hole gets.

Again yes be prepared for this. Usually a small trivial hole in a sill is hiding a few more skeletons and it's only when you begin to investigate you realise you could fit your arm through it.

 

[Bill Edwards]

It is an excellent idea.

It may be easier if the vehicle is on the road and you will/can drive to a couple of local garages and show them it all ready to weld, but if someone is coming out then you certainly would need to speak to them before doing the work yourself.

Personally, I detest repairing rot on vehicles. This is because of the prep work, the actual welding is the OK bit - barring the odd lump of molten metal that gets down inside your overalls. If someone wanted me to do some repairs it would be a no, but if they did all the nasty work themselves it would be a different answer.
But, with that said, Kent does make a good point - the welder will want it all prepping well. No big gaps to fill in, and make sure you cut the rot back fully to reach some metal that is thick enough to weld properly. It's always a lot further than it initially appears.