Weird house wiring!

[Alex.]

Oh dear - I'm preparing to refit my kitchen and I've been checking over the existing wiring.
All the kitchen 13A sockets are fed by a single heavy cable from the consumer unit, about the same size as the cable to the cooker. When it gets to the kitchen this cable runs along opposite walls, so I seem to have a 'Y' circuit instead of a ring main!
(The power to my garage is taken from one arm of the Y, so this question has a slight connection to welding.)
Is this arrangement in any way normal, or even safe? Should I be thinking of running a proper ring main?

All help gratefully received!

Alex.

 

[Robotstar5]

It's known as a radial circuit but should not be split (Y), best advice is to put in a proper ring main for your new kitchen and use the existing cable to only supply your garage - with the proper protection for each circuit.

 

[brightspark]

strip the existing wiring out. run a new ringmain round the kitchen .it must be fitted with 30 amp fuse through an rcd unless u allready have one fitted . then u must upgrade the earthing arangements if it doesnt comply. eg bond the gas and water with 10.0mm earth cable your suposed to be part.p registered working in kitchens and bathrooms but thats up to u as long as its done rite

 

[Robotstar5]

your suposed to be part.p registered working in kitchens and bathrooms

Note location of OP, does part P apply in Scotland?

 

[brightspark]

Note location of OP, does part P apply in Scotland?

dont know on that one
im registered but im in england but the wiring regs still stand

 

[mike os]

Part P may not apply, but BS7671 ( latest release) will

 

[Robotstar5]

Part P may not apply, but BS7671 ( latest release) will

Yes, should wire to regs, but I was just wondering if part P applied, I'm am industrial sparky so quite happily install 3ph boards, sockets, lighting etc. at work. Did the 17th edition last year but (technically ) I can't even install a socket in my house!

 

[brightspark]

Yes, should wire to regs, but I was just wondering if part P applied, I'm am industrial sparky so quite happily install 3ph boards, sockets, lighting etc. at work. Did the 17th edition last year but (technically ) I can't even install a socket in my house!

and of course u get someone in to conect it for u the same as me when i was employed heres the truth about it if u wired your own house up and were competent at doing so electrician or not .u could leave it a few month or a few years . when u come to sell it get a periodic test done on it . if its been done properly cost about £150 00 by a ni registered company they give certificate everyones happy

 

[mike os]

not worked in scotland... but part P of the building regs is not applicable in itself, (regs only apply to england wales & NI) but there is most probably a comparative piece of legislation for scotland

Current "regulations" re registration are a total cock up...only good for raising a new "electricians tax"

 

[pidgeon chit welder]

Oh dear - I'm preparing to refit my kitchen and I've been checking over the existing wiring.
All the kitchen 13A sockets are fed by a single heavy cable from the consumer unit, about the same size as the cable to the cooker. When it gets to the kitchen this cable runs along opposite walls, so I seem to have a 'Y' circuit instead of a ring main!
(The power to my garage is taken from one arm of the Y, so this question has a slight connection to welding.)
Is this arrangement in any way normal, or even safe? Should I be thinking of running a proper ring main?

All help gratefully received!

Alex.

Alex ,
Was it black rubber covered cable unsleeved earths and a Bakelite 50 amp junction box..that's the only radial stuff I have ever seen and that should have all been replaced some 20 years ago.

 

[Robotstar5]

Current "regulations" re registration are a total cock up...only good for raising a new "electricians tax"

Tell me about it, last year when we had a pay cut at work (reccession) I looked into getting registered, worked out about £1800 even with my quals and 30+ years experience!

 

[brightspark]

Alex ,
Was it black rubber covered cable unsleeved earths and a Bakelite 50 amp junction box..that's the only radial stuff I have ever seen and that should have all been replaced some 20 years ago.

u can still run radials. a string of sockets at 20 amp on 2.5 cable. or a radial circuit at 30 amp run on 4.0mm cable. depends on the aplication and cable runs

 

[mike os]

Tell me about it, last year when we had a pay cut at work (reccession) I looked into getting registered, worked out about £1800 even with my quals and 30+ years experience!

experience counts for nothing these days... "have you got this weeks "in" certs?"

no but I have C&g & 30 years.....

Sorry H&S......******

 

[pidgeon chit welder]

u can still run radials. a string of sockets at 20 amp on 2.5 cable. or a radial circuit at 30 amp run on 4.0mm cable. depends on the aplication and cable runs

Thinking about it YES they are still used , I was thinking of a 1952 ex council I had purchased that in 1993 had a good burn up due to some heavy 2.5 mm copper wire in the downstairs radial circuit fuse.
I didn't check the fuses when we purchased it.

When I started to chop out the cable run from the incinerated wall plate I was surprised at it still being black rubber covered cable in a single radial for the whole downstairs .

We did a total and updated whole house rewire a week later ...discovered some gentleman had cut right through the joist collar on the chimney breast when they did the original build in 1952 . I don't know why the four joists did not come down to see the fire place for it was only the floor board nails holding them up

 

[Alex.]

Thanks for all your input lads.
The heavy cable is 'modern' plastic covered T&E coming off a 32A breaker so it sounds like it's correct, apart from the side branch. I followed a link to
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/6.3.3.htm from an earlier thread here and it describes it pretty well. It seems the theory is that running one big cable is the same as the two 'sides' of a ring main, so (devil's advocate) it should be allowable to put a ring at the end of the big cable, to give a 'P' sort of layout. Or is that too simple?
Seriously though, I think I'll take Robotstar's advice and use the big cable as the basis for a new supply to the garage, and create a new ring for the kitchen area. The bondage is already done.
I've no idea what regulations apply this side of the border, but I was planning to lay the cable myself and then have a professional (or someone who charges anyway) come and connect it up. The cable route involves lifting carpets/floors upstairs and disturbing decoration, so I'm not keen to let an apprentice loose on it. I'd get them to do a test of the whole installation as well - is that like an MOT, I get some time to fix anything wrong?

 

[Robotstar5]

Get a sparky to call in and tell him / her what you plan to do, they should advise you how much you can do before they do the inspection & testing. If they want to do the whole job, find some one else who wants to make some money as opposed to no money!