Water Cooled Torch. What to fill with?

[Paul G]

Hi All,

I've just fitted a new power lead to my WP20 TIG torch and just wondered if it's worth filling the system with a corrosion inhibitor.

My local plumber suggested I used Fernox, and has given me some already mixed with water.

What's the general feeling? Nothing to lose? There's a better product?
Or is it just a waste of effort?


Cheers,
Paul G

 

[langy]

I used distilled water in mine with 20% antifreeeze.

 

[Shox Dr]

^^ Same As Steve.

 

[derekm]

best stuff would be the glycol used in solar heating systems (propyl glycol with corrosion inhibitors). The stuffs non-toxic.

 

[arthur]

What about Evans waterless coolant, I use it in many bikes etc, lasts for life..

 

[Jim_gsxr1000]

Weak engine coolant 20-25% in distiled water

 

[FranV8]

I'm running the pink antifreeze (car stuff) - probably at 40% strength, but it's probably too early to say if it's the right answer! Has been flawless so far, although I'd say the change in viscosity from plain water is noticeable.

 

[hotrodder]

Dunno if i'd trust OAT coolant (usually red/orange/pink) longterm, loads of classic car clubs have articles claiming it's not very compatible with soldered rads and some of the older gasket materials- dunno about the pump seals but the heat exchanger in my water cooler is soldered.

Apologies about the rant but as Evans waterless has been mentioned i can't help myself... Neat propylene glycol has a specific heat capacity of 0.6 BTU/lb °F, neat ethylene glycol 0.56. The usual 50% EG in water is ~0.8 and Evans quote 0.66 so it's not as good as removing heat from things as traditional coolants mixed with water. Not off to a good start and it gets worse when you look at viscosity- the Evans stuff is 3 times as viscous as a 50% solution of glycol in water. Poor water pump.
As far as i can work out it's basically neat glycol + corrosion additives priced as though it was gold, mind you while Ed China probably isn't expensive i doubt Jay Leno comes cheap

As nearly everyone else i use distilled/deionised water + a little glycol coolant, IIRC the manual for mine specced 30%

 

[matt1978]

From a manufacturers point of view you should only use what they specify. (Assuming you still have a manufacturers warranty)

Definitely don't use conventional Anti-Freeze. Binzel do a pre-mixed solution, not sure of prices.

The water for our machines,has some sort of lubricant fitted aswell to help with the pump.

It's not just the chemicals added its also the conductivity of the water, I forget what it's measured in but the reason specific coolant is recommended is also because its a very low conductivity compared to normal water. It's all about potential galvanic corrosion on the pump and the insides of the torch neck when the water is passing through and current at the same time

 

[madkayaker]

Sevets is the measurement of water conductivity or ohms the same as normal stuff. However the two scales run **** about tit so 1 severt is 0ohms 0severt is >99 ohms

 

[Piero]

I use lorch cooling lubricant in my lorch cooler
Things can be as specific as we can be bothered to learn or not as the case may be.

 

[arthur]

Hotrodder, know what your saying about Evans, I know nothing about liquid cooled welding plants but the Evans has been VERY good in superbike and MX/Enduro so far with me and my workshop now just endorsed by world Honda MX teams etc they seem to think the pros of the product are good, used in the Dakar rally and many race series in the US and worldwide inc afaik Nascar etc.. Price... I agree off the scale! I have it running in some top spec bikes and yes IMO does run a deg or two hotter but overall more stable than any other coolant Ive used in twenty years, as for Edd and his car program well Ive little interest tbh and the product he used is not the same formula as Powercool as for viscosity Ive not noticed it to be much thicker than pre mixed coolants so the water pump is under no strain and certainly no more than a pressurised water based system..

 

[hotrodder]

The Ed/Jay thing was a bit of a low blow i couldn't resist My main problem is the snake oil way they market it... it has it's place but they bang on and on about the really high boiling point (oil and cylinder head temps anyone?) and the lack of pressure needed as a result and then recommend that a pressure cap is still used, presumably to stop hot engines from puking ultra expensive coolant out the overflow (glycols have a greater expansion rate than water IIRC). Even the MSDS sheet for NPG+ contradicts itself- described as a non aqueous proplyene glycol and the only ingredient listed is ethylene glycol The viscosity thing may be a bigger deal in a welder as the water passages around the torch head are miniscule

FWIW MSDS sheet for Binzel special coolant BTC-15 Ethylene glycol and isopropyl alcohol. Wonder what makes up the other ~70% and didn't need mentioning on the msds sheet? mostly distilled/deionised water perhaps?

Can't find any actual numbers for the conductivity of it (everything just says 'low conductivity' 'non conductive at welding OC voltages'), distilled water is supposed to be less than 11 micro sevets/cm and deionised can get as low as 5.5 according to the internet

Matt, would be i right in saying the problem manufacturers have with automotive coolant (besides conductivity if mixed with tap water) is potental blockages due to the way the anti corrosion additives work?

 

[arthur]

Good to get your views mate, as I say I have it in some 200bhp superbike motors so far with good results, they do indeed run a deg or two hotter but I hope the pros of the product are worth the extra deg or two, don't worry I have my eye on the ambient temps too as in testing it's been quite cool. Like I say I know nothing about water cooled welding plants so guess Im just throwing about some questions for you and others.. Like you say it has it's place but maybe NOT for welding plants... IF I had a water cooled plant Id only run what the manufactures recommend, much like the peace of mind of Honda and other teams running Evans, if that were not the case I would not run it. Also just for info it's used and recommenced by Rotax aircraft engines, if they trust it surely its worthy... It's hard to dig through the marketing for honest views of this and that... hence why I grab the opportunity to throw in the odd Evans comments here and there... Ha Ha.. Cheers.

 

[hotrodder]

I used the Rotax service instructions to convince someone NOT to switch to it recently They were struggling to get their head round the coolant boiling point being kinda besides the point when it comes to max operating temps and while rotax list a higher max coolant temp for the Evans stuff due to the higher boiling point the (more important) max cylinder head temp is exactly the same regardless of coolant flavour. It's the marketing that implies overheating is a thing of the past with Evans i have a problem with. That and the fact a coolant change would cost ~ £150 on my daily driver, £200 with their prep fluid to ensure no water is left in the system. And if a i get a leak i can't top up with water/other coolants without wrecking the stuff and having to start over. I see Honda are sponsered by Evans

 

[arthur]

lol, not wrong... I agree fully with all your saying... Valid on all accounts..

And Honda would need a sponsor at the price of it

I just need to drop a block of alloy in a tub of it and check it in two years time...

Sorry for going off topic people

 

[matt1978]

Matt, would be i right in saying the problem manufacturers have with automotive coolant (besides conductivity if mixed with tap water) is potental blockages due to the way the anti corrosion additives work?

Yes Hotrodder, thats right.

I am not a service engineer, nor have any electrical background, but I have heard this more than once now from people back at the Lorch factory and also at the Fronius factory when I visited there. The people who said this are purely service related and with no sales motivation at all, afterall they were explaining it to me not directly to a customer.

 

[Ed.]

Just throwing in my 2 cents worth, I put plain water with Holden/Ford engine coolant into my home made cooler, at (25% coolant), that was about 2 yrs ago and it hasn't given me any problems. My plumbing setup consists of a high pressure low volume water pump, 2 x air conditioner radiators (copper pipes with alum fins), alum tank and hose fittings, stainless valve and the copper inside the torch running at about 18psi and 3-4 lt/min, so far no hint of any problems or corrosion. Water temp in the holding tank only rises about 3-5 degrees above ambient, The rads are fan cooled, the coolant works well.