Waiting for payment

[F.J.]

Hi all,

I have a customer that I did some work for back in September and I am still waiting to be paid off him! We had/have a good relationship so don't want to go in all aggressive and demand my money but feel I ought to let him know how I feel about waiting so long. It's not as if he operates a big firm, he is a one man firm like me. So far I've sent him a text asking if we can sort it out as soon as poss as I am putting my first load of accounts in soon and could do with the cash for my tax bill, I also rang him yesterday but had to leave a message with him. To top off my frustration I have just had a text off him saying he is expecting some payment in the next week or so from other work he has done so I will get paid when he does. Surely I have I shouldn't have to wait this long plus have to wait until he gets paid off another job.

Does anyone have any clarification in where I stand as I'm now short of going down there and filling my van with all his stuff

Cheers
Dean

 

[rtbcomp]

You'll end up in trouble if you do steal his stuff (unfortunately).

Write a formal letter of demand but really your only option once personal contacts have been exhausted is the Small Claims Court.

It would be a good idea to keep a diary of your attempts to get your money, copies of correspondence and if possible recordings of telephone conversations.

PS - It wouldn't be a chemicals supplier in Manchester would it? One has got my money but seems non too keen on supplying the goods!

 

[Engineer1964]

I get this all the time dean, but now i'm asking for money up front for small jobs at least and i'll wait a week for anything over £500

I can't and will not give credit to anyone, I just can't afford to. I think being too civil and polite for too long makes it difficult to get your cash because the other person is seeing just how easy it is to put you off.

You've tried your best and its still not getting you anywhere so what i tend to do is to send him a county court form highlighting all the work done, the price agreed and interest on any outstanding amount. Don't forget to add about £100 on top for your legal fees & Court Costs

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

When they get this they'll either quickly pay up or if your unlucky, they'd rather chance it through the courts, but its still 50/50 as to if you'll get paid

heres an interest calculator you might like to play with http://www.top-service.co.uk/page.php?pid=37

 

[tigler]

Sounds like a classic case of the cash flow chain problem. When there is a recession this is a typical problem that small companies and sole traders suffer. It's especially bad now because of the banks not lending to small enterprise. If he doesn't have any working capital and can't borrow he will be hanging by a thread waiting to be paid by another in the chain. Small enterprise has no alternative but to use suppliers as a bank.

Get in there now to stand any chance of getting your money, he may be on the brink of going under. If he does and even if you get judgement against him after that the chances of getting the money will be negligible.

 

[the snooper]

i think i would write him a letter explaining that the account has been outstanding long enough and give him a fixed period in which to settle the account explaining that the next step will be legal proceedings against him which will incurr costs and interest on the amount outstanding also point out in the letter any ccj's against him will damage his credit rating

 

[Dev]

i think i would write him a letter explaining that the account has been outstanding long enough and give him a fixed period in which to settle the account explaining that the next step will be legal proceedings against him which will incurr costs and interest on the amount outstanding also point out in the letter any ccj's against him will damage his credit rating

This. Use terms like 'reasonable time to pay', 'liability', 'commenced without notice'. I would guess if you do some googling there'll be standard letters for this sort of thing.

Will it lose you a customer? Do you want him as a customer if he isn't going to pay you?

Or you could be more patient and hope for the best. And if he pays up you know any further work is cash up front. If you wait too long though and he goes bust you'll get nothing.

 

[tigler]

Will it lose you a customer? Do you want him as a customer if he isn't going to pay you?

A non payer, or perpetual late payer stops being a customer and becomes a liability.

 

[mike os]

A non payer, or perpetual late payer stops being a customer and becomes a liability.

100% agree...

you can also tell them you intend to add interest to the outstanding amount.. ther is a "standard rate" for this, in law, for buisiness transactions

https://www.gov.uk/late-commercial-payments-interest-debt-recovery

 

[F.J.]

Thanks for the response,

I'll be getting back in touch with him later, weather it be text, answer message or other means. I don't think he is on the verge of going bump, he is for ever on twitter promoting his business and his website is for ever bring updated, albeit he's using images off google as his own work. I just think he is being crafty and seeing how long I will wait. I have only just got round to chasing it up now due to being chokka with other customers but I don't suffer fools gladly so think ill give him till Friday then ill be knocking in his door (his house must be around 450k) which is also a kick in the Crown Jewels.

 

[tigler]

After a number of fairly large bad debts, thats in the £1000's, in the days of our family business we realised that being Mr nice guy with overdue invoices rarely has any benefit, only liabilities.
So in addition to credit checks with new customers we began to audit them as ongoing practice. So every 6 months each customer would be credit checked again and if this revealed any concerns, combined with deteriorating payment history we would reduce or remove their credit limit and place them on payment with order only. If we noticed payment becoming slow before the routine audit we would take action immediately of course. This did cost time and money but massively less than bad debts or chasing through the courts. It also caused some to go elsewhere but we were happy with that, the competition then had the problem ! Most did actually stay though, although they moaned but as we explained, we were not a bank, if they were having cash flow problems then go and increase their overdraft like we were being forced to !
During this process I frequently discovered companies trading insolvent, which was a very useful lever for extracting payment !!

In Europe it's an entirely different story. To set up a company in most European countries it's compulsory to have a capital investment proportional to turnover, and this must be verified by the authorities and declared on company paperwork. Of course that is the correct way to run a business but the UK has Ltd liability so any shark can exploit this and it's made worse by the authorities turning a blind eye with companies under the multi million turnover bracket going bust, running off with the assets and starting again !

 

[tigler]

Thanks for the response,

I'll be getting back in touch with him later, weather it be text, answer message or other means. I don't think he is on the verge of going bump, he is for ever on twitter promoting his business and his website is for ever bring updated, albeit he's using images off google as his own work. I just think he is being crafty and seeing how long I will wait. I have only just got round to chasing it up now due to being chokka with other customers but I don't suffer fools gladly so think ill give him till Friday then ill be knocking in his door (his house must be around 450k) which is also a kick in the Crown Jewels.

He's taking the urine then

 

[Robotstar5]

... but the UK has Ltd liability so any shark can exploit this and it's made worse by the authorities turning a blind eye with companies under the multi million turnover bracket going bust, running off with the assets and starting again !

I can vouch for that, I worked for someone who did that and lost my job during one of his re-starts to really rub it in he owed me £3k in salary/expenses

 

[mike os]

I can vouch for that, I worked for someone who did that and lost my job during one of his re-starts to really rub it in he owed me £3k in salary/expenses

my personal little protest at it... i wont work or sub to any firm that i know has done this kind of crap....

 

[dannymac]

I dont give credit anymore,give some people an inch and they take a mile,you end up feeling like a beggar chasing them for the money you earned!I always say to people who just dont understand,its like someone working for a wage and come pay day,your boss telling you,nahh,im not paying you now,ill pay you in a month or two..thats exactly whats its like for us in a small business,you've shelled out your hard earned to buy materials/parts/fuel costs etc..then after the jobs done,you need that cash just like anyone else to put food on the table etc.I have afew customers that i know will pay me and i dont worry about letting the job out the door unpaid,but others(usually the ones who seem to have plenty cabbage) are the ones you have to send invoices out to,sometimes they take the hump when you say payment on delivery,but usually,in the long run,youre better off without their custom.

 

[Pete.]

Hi all,

I have a customer that I did some work for back in September and I am still waiting to be paid off him! We had/have a good relationship so don't want to go in all aggressive and demand my money but feel I ought to let him know how I feel about waiting so long. It's not as if he operates a big firm, he is a one man firm like me. So far I've sent him a text asking if we can sort it out as soon as poss as I am putting my first load of accounts in soon and could do with the cash for my tax bill, I also rang him yesterday but had to leave a message with him. To top off my frustration I have just had a text off him saying he is expecting some payment in the next week or so from other work he has done so I will get paid when he does. Surely I have I shouldn't have to wait this long plus have to wait until he gets paid off another job.

Does anyone have any clarification in where I stand as I'm now short of going down there and filling my van with all his stuff

Cheers
Dean

Figure out what payment terms you yourself are comfortable with and make them policy. I bet in most cases customers who are bad payers actually have the money and just like to push the boundaries of how much they can get away with stringing the payments out.

If a customer has the money to pay for stuff they ordered made, they should pay it. If they don't have the money they shouldn't have ordered it or they should have told you their financial circumstances so you could make an informed decision. I would give no mercy to a bad-paying customer, they would pay up or face a winding-up order/court action.

You shouldn't have to bank-roll customers. The yanks have a system called 3% 10 net 30. If you pay within 10 days you get a 3% discount, the account is due in 30 days and if you go over you pay a heavy penalty.

A customer that can't pay is a customer you don't want.

 

[nickk]

I've got a bad debt on a staircase i made ,it goes back to feb' been to see him phone every so often ,he says he got nothing even runs up a bill on his sons credit card -the blokes an accountant for f***sake he cant do anymore borrowing so the barn conversion is unfinished & therefore cant be signed off with bldg'control,i do beleive him saying he has no money yet intends to pay some as soon as poss' but how long do i wait.its 30 miles away ,even if i risked attempting to remove part of the structure from in the house it would inevitably damage the floors/walls getting it out.theres nothing of any value outside to 'look after' it seems keeping up the dialogue is the best option,his previous payment terms on the rest of this project [going back 6yrs] has been good.

 

[wheresmejumper]

if i risked attempting to remove part of the structure from in the house it would inevitably damage the floors/walls getting it out[going back 6yrs] has been good.

he could take you to court over that!damage or no damage

a panel beating friend undid a crash repair due to non payment,and got sued

 

[brightspark]

he could take you to court over that!damage or no damage

a panel beating friend undid a crash repair due to non payment,and got sued

if u go take out what u have fitted u have to put the fabric of the building back as it was before u started and thats impossible catch 22

 

[pidgeon chit welder]

I've got a bad debt on a staircase i made ,it goes back to feb' been to see him phone every so often ,he says he got nothing even runs up a bill on his sons credit card -the blokes an accountant for f***sake he cant do anymore borrowing so the barn conversion is unfinished & therefore cant be signed off with bldg'control,i do beleive him saying he has no money yet intends to pay some as soon as poss' but how long do i wait.its 30 miles away ,even if i risked attempting to remove part of the structure from in the house it would inevitably damage the floors/walls getting it out.theres nothing of any value outside to 'look after' it seems keeping up the dialogue is the best option,his previous payment terms on the rest of this project [going back 6yrs] has been good.

Take him to the county court and see if it is worth while geting a charge put on his property ( check online for under a tenner if he owns it with the land registry ) .. When it's sold you get first grab at the dosh meanwhile write down as as an investment .

 

[Dev]

Small claims court, costs £60 ifaik to register a claim for anything up to £1000. If you lose then the £60 is all you're out.