Wages going down?

[bump]

Welded in my youth, now servers and networking are where I'm at. It also massively depends on your geographic location.

 

[tomsutton529]

It all depends on what market you work in. I left college with a CISCO qualification along with microsoft specialist qualification and OCR accreditation in level 1 and 2 customer support, I now work for a very small company doing Engineering covering places like Airbus and Kelloggs. With my IT background and Engineering I get a very very varied job and get paid way beyond what most IT people would for covering the size of company I work for and our infrastructure.

So no, I dont think wages are going down, I think places like the skills train have turned up and "qualified" loads of people that are willing to work for less but with less skills. I remember speaking to the Skills Train and seeing what they could offer, as i was willing to undertake further training at my own expense to get into the IT sector, It turned out that I was over qualified for the skills train that were offering me training and a "job".

 

[skotl]

Rik asked how many of us work in IT and it seems that there are a surprising number.

Speaking for myself, IT is a hugely frustrating area where the customers have totally unrealistic expectations (is that the same in fabrication?).
So coming home and cutting s***, welding s***, and gluing s*** together is the antidote to my day job.

As a contrast, I sold my paint sprayer to a guy in his 60s last weekend. He turned up and had a look round my garage and said "I've been a welder for 40 years and you wouldnae catch me welding when I have a day off!". I guess for some folks the hobby is just whatever the opposite of your day job is.

 

[Kent]

I think turning away from IT wages! That we need to consider the price a firm needs to build into their pricing for labour against cheaper labour rates in other EU countries and also the ridiculously low costs in places like China were things like power might be state funded.
Now back to wages and how this must be factored in £8 PH seems the norm for UK production MIG welding the on cost to the employer just on that hourly pay rate will be 20% greater maybe 22% to cover NI employers contributions and pensions etc. . Obviously there is a top limit you can charge before your too expensive to win the job with your tender and a price too low to make profit (breaking even is pure luck because costs can never be so close) If you don't make profit you basically make a loss and go bust! Everyone then goes home so if your paid too much it cant last that long in any job
So were am I going? Don't be a production MIG welder for long unless you have to as you wont get very far, up-skill yourself into other areas were there are less people who can do the job or get to be the guy at the top who gets their money from making a profit bearing in mind that the down side is a loss if you get things wrong comes directly out of your wallet

 

[MrFluffy]

It all depends on what market you work in. I left college with a CISCO qualification along with microsoft specialist qualification and OCR accreditation in level 1 and 2 customer support, I now work for a very small company doing Engineering covering places like Airbus and Kelloggs. With my IT background and Engineering I get a very very varied job and get paid way beyond what most IT people would for covering the size of company I work for and our infrastructure.

So no, I dont think wages are going down, I think places like the skills train have turned up and "qualified" loads of people that are willing to work for less but with less skills. I remember speaking to the Skills Train and seeing what they could offer, as i was willing to undertake further training at my own expense to get into the IT sector, It turned out that I was over qualified for the skills train that were offering me training and a "job".

Amusing (true) IT story, we had a cisco certified guy start and on day 1, someone hands him a rollover cable to set some config on a 2950 just unboxed and he looked at us like we were aliens. It turned out he didnt even know what a serial port cable was, let alone how to plug one in and set the baud rate etc to get initial comms to the device. We pumped him for info thinking his cert was fake and had it checked out, and it was legit, turned out he had memorized all the answers in a package called powderkeg to get his ccna and had never actually seen a router in real life
You might be a ios wizz and I'm not knocking you for doing it, but that right there, is why a ccna and mcse etc has become devalued over time. Good all rounders that really know their subject are still valued and prized highly and priced accordingly, but those letters are no longer the ticket they once were.

 

[MrFluffy]

Obviously there is a top limit you can charge before your too expensive to win the job with your tender and a price too low to make profit (breaking even is pure luck because costs can never be so close) If you don't make profit you basically make a loss and go bust!

The best contract roles dont have a rate on the advert, you are expected to know market price for something and come in somewhere in a acceptable band according to your experience etc. CV's from people who are coming in too low go in the bin because its a very quick and easy way to sort people out chancing their arm.
The knowing what to come in at shows a company what to expect quality and experience wise from a resource.

 

[Kent]

The best contract roles dont have a rate on the advert, you are expected to know market price for something and come in somewhere in a acceptable band according to your experience etc. CV's from people who are coming in too low go in the bin because its a very quick and easy way to sort people out chancing their arm.
The knowing what to come in at shows a company what to expect quality and experience wise from a resource.

Cant see any relevance as to why you quoted me into that I wasn't talking about hourly contact rates at all

 

[Keith 66]

Out of interest i was talking to a friend today who has been in IT for many years, turns out he gave it all up a year ago & now works as a gardener, charges £20 an hour for new customers, £15 for his long term regulars. He's rushed of his feet.

 

[MrFluffy]

Cant see any relevance as to why you quoted me into that I wasn't talking about hourly contact rates at all

You were discussing pricing yourself out of a job and the fine line you have to walk between being too expensive and too cheap. I was posting my view from the occasional other side of the fence when I have been involved in recruitment and using it as a metric to filter off who we shouldnt be talking to early on in the process.
Im not talking zero hours contract stuff or pitching for individual jobs, but the "we need a xyz for 4 months to cover a shortfall while we get this product shipped, lets get a contractor in because it will be more cost effective than a employee because we can finish them after the peak is past" sort of deal.
In the industries I have worked in, its almost always a 8 hr day contract terms, or a professional day rate but even for the professional day rate we still presented it as a 8hr day requirement therefore all negotiations happened on the basis of the hourly rate.

 

[Kent]

yeah, still don't get the link but hey ho

 

[F.J.]

Going back to welders wages, if you take a look on Indeed's website and do a search on 'welder' then most of the vacancies are offering around £6.50-£10.50 ph. Some offer the top end for one welding skill and others want you to be able to mig,tig and stick weld for the same amount, and read from engineers drawings. Coded welders don't fair much better either!! Welders produce critical pieces of work that in some cases need to protect life and it's surroundings. A skill like this made a mockery of with the wages being paid right now. I left the shop floor 8 years ago on £10.50 and the company is still paying the same wage today. IMO the only way to earn a decent wage unless it's a specialist job is to go on your own

 

[Wedg1e]

Then there was the year 2K thing for a year or two...

A mate of mine was a salesman for HP/Compaq/Dell or whatever they were around 2000... he was telling us that a lot of companies didn't go along with the Y2K thing until the last minute when they started bricking-it over what MIGHT happen IF... so matey sailed in and sold them massive systems hand over fist in the last months of 1999.
He got his commission paid quarterly in arrears, so at the end of March 2000 he trousered a cheque for... £40,000.

 

[Kent]

Going back to welders wages, if you take a look on Indeed's website and do a search on 'welder' then most of the vacancies are offering around £6.50-£10.50 ph. Some offer the top end for one welding skill and others want you to be able to mig,tig and stick weld for the same amount, and read from engineers drawings. Coded welders don't fair much better either!! Welders produce critical pieces of work that in some cases need to protect life and it's surroundings. A skill like this made a mockery of with the wages being paid right now. I left the shop floor 8 years ago on £10.50 and the company is still paying the same wage today. IMO the only way to earn a decent wage unless it's a specialist job is to go on your own

Much of what you say here is so true, I think it stems from the fact its so hard to fire off the rubbish these days so you want them coming in at cheap money. SE lads at least you can tell them to pack their tools up and go

 

[F.J.]

Much of what you say here is so true, I think it stems from the fact its so hard to fire off the rubbish these days so you want them coming in at cheap money. SE lads at least you can tell them to pack their tools up and go

I don't know how it is now but back when I worked there, there were two pay brackets. The run of the mill Monday to Friday workers and the boot draggers were given £8.75 an hour and the ones that went above and beyond, worked through their breaks and produced better work were given £10.50. Probably not right morally but it kept the higher earners happy knowing the we're being rewarded. Most of the lads that were there when I was are still there

 

[Kent]

I believe totally on paying on worth and also going off what you see with your own eyes, nothing immoral in that in fact. Why should a guy that can do twice as much as another not get twice the pay and one that can only do half as much half the pay? Its not something that really computes in my head.

 

[TechnicAl]

There was (is) a lot of Bankers paid on results. Look where that got us. As with most things there is good and bad in every system. Getting paid on results is fine but there has to be rules.

 

[brightspark]

do what i do . give someone a basic pay and encourage them with an incentive bonus.most times it works wonders and everyone scores

 

[PTvor]

There was (is) a lot of Bankers paid on results. Look where that got us. As with most things there is good and bad in every system. Getting paid on results is fine but there has to be rules.

A lot of the bankers were performing to the objectives they were set.

What gets my goat is CEOs who screw up huge companies with enormous losses to employees, shareholders and customers, and are given a lottery win to clear off. That really is rewarding incompetence.

 

[Wedg1e]

do what i do . give someone a basic pay and encourage them with an incentive bonus.most times it works wonders and everyone scores

Do what my boss does: fail to increase salary or holidays with increased term of service... that's nearly 22 years for me and I get the same holidays I started with, plus I haven't had a meaningful pay rise in over 10 years. I had Reeds recruitment badgering me a couple of weeks back with a vacancy for a coffee machine 'engineer' - basically a glorified cleaning job, more than £2000 a year more than I get for doing what I do. Why am I still here?

 

[starlet kp]

DOUBLE OR HALF is what i live by ask double what you want if selling (including your skills) offer half of what you are prepared to pay if buying. if you are good at what you do and confident a compromise will be found.