vw beetle heater channels

[pondy]

a friend at work is restoring a beetle and has been asking me for months to change its heater channels, finally said I would come over and have a look and see what sort of job it will be.
never worked on bugs before and only seen said channels on google, has anyone on here changed them before, have any tips or what's involved etc?

 

[p0689109]

If it is a Herbie style beetle then they are part of the sills and therefore considered structural. Is the body off the floor assembly as that would make it a bit easier? Practical Classic magazine are covering just such a job in the last 4 issues or so.

 

[rkde]

on ours to do it properly we took the body off the floor pan. you can bodge it with the body on the pan but really its not right and in the end you would end up welding the body to the floor pan

 

[Sean]

Have a look and ask on here - http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/forumdisplay.php?f=11 but if youv'e just been talked in to it without looking, you may want to run away

 

[garethp]

I changed some on a beetle years ago, the floor pan was already split from the body which made it easier (not a big job to split them) and the sills weren't too bad to do. Make sure you have a brace across the door opening before you cut the old sill, otherwise it will go very floppy...

 

[pondy]

Thanks for the info, I have been on you tube and there is a lot of guides on how to do this job. Hope too see the bug tomorrow and see how much metal worm it has

 

[Kafer_meister]

It'll have at least 3 times the amount of rust that you can see . From front to back, they attach (spot and seam welded iirc) at the front, to the bulkhead, which is a double skinned panel at the front of the footwells. They are spot welded to the front lower inner wing panel and then seam welded to the bottom of the A-pillar. They are then seam welded around the bottom of the B-pillar and spot welded along the top (inside) and the bottom of the rear quarter panel (outside behind the running board). Then finally they're welded to the end of the rear cross member, below the rear seat. The door gap should be maintained at 950mm =/- 1mm, you can brace them, but sometimes all that does is maintain an incorrect gap due to accident or poor repairs in the past.

Now bearing in mind that most beetles by now have had at least one set of channels, if not two and various 'repairs' over the years, you'll probably have to freestyle a lot of this. A lot of the time they get welded to the chassis by quick bodge repairs. Pretty much everywhere they're attached will also be rusty. Take a rust poking stick.

Post some pics of anything you're unsure about and I'll see if I can offer any advice.

 

[pondy]

Went to see it today, its had alot of repairs before. Inner front archs on heater duct has a patch fitted In such a way its welded body and floor together, a pillars are all patched at the heater channel, there is some patching on the body behind the fuel tank which is welded body and floor together, holes in panels behind doors, rusted around engine bay, there is a lip were a seal clips in and its all paper thin. Worst part is inside, behind were the battery goes is very rotten, other side not much better and has a big patch on it. Floor pans covered in surface rust and no holes. Unsure how thick metal is

 

[bonepyro]

Another thing which may not be obvious when you look at this is the heater channel delivery tubes to the mixer box in the bonnet.
In the A pillar there is a flexi tube that connects between the heater channel and the mixer. I seem to remember it was made from foil lined cardboard or similar. The new tube must be fitted to the channel before you fit the channel in place, as there is no access after fitting.

As others have said, not an impossible task, but not something to be undertaken lightly, as the heater channel is essentially the structural body member for the whole side of the car, with every other panel tied into them.

I fitted both sides on the bug in my album on here. http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/useralbums/bonepyros-bug.74/view

As mentioned bracing the body across the cabin and across the door opening is essential as with the channel removed the only remaining structure is the roof.

 

[clarkey31]

Hi there as said above its not a small job it can be done with out fully splitting the body from the pan but not easy and with the amount of work need much better to split.

I dont and would not brace the door gaps as said above you can be just locking in bad gaps i run custom classics and have done loads of beetles here is a link to our facbook there is loads of pics of them being done http://www.facebook.com/pages/Custom-Classics-Ltd/301435958328?sk=photos_albums

If you need any advice please dont hesitate to contact me phone no are on the facebook page or through here

Gavin

 

[bonepyro]

Hi Gavin, I fully see your point about door bracing, I bow to your experience, it seems you have done many and I have only done one.

To justify my own actions, it was a case of learning as you go, and with only a person at each end of the body to lift it off the pan, I was more concerned that any flex would damage the roof. At the time the body was lifted the channels were that shot that they offered little structural integrity.

I can fully see that once you have the body off and the old channels chopped out, door braces might hold the body in an incorrect alignment, and it would be better to get everything correctly aligned without bracing in place. Never too old to learn.

 

[octo0072000]

Went to see it today, its had alot of repairs before. Inner front archs on heater duct has a patch fitted In such a way its welded body and floor together, a pillars are all patched at the heater channel, there is some patching on the body behind the fuel tank which is welded body and floor together, holes in panels behind doors, rusted around engine bay, there is a lip were a seal clips in and its all paper thin. Worst part is inside, behind were the battery goes is very rotten, other side not much better and has a big patch on it. Floor pans covered in surface rust and no holes. Unsure how thick metal is

Walk away quick

 

[clarkey31]

Hi Gavin, I fully see your point about door bracing, I bow to your experience, it seems you have done many and I have only done one.

To justify my own actions, it was a case of learning as you go, and with only a person at each end of the body to lift it off the pan, I was more concerned that any flex would damage the roof. At the time the body was lifted the channels were that shot that they offered little structural integrity.

I can fully see that once you have the body off and the old channels chopped out, door braces might hold the body in an incorrect alignment, and it would be better to get everything correctly aligned without bracing in place. Never too old to learn.

Its ok the first one i ever did i braced the gap and then had a nightmare getting the gaps right so learnt myself from experience and a fair bit of trail and error.

 

[pondy]

Thanks for mall your input. Any rough ideas what to charge for all the faults I described above, know its hard to say without seeing it. Dont really want to touch the thing but have a wedding to pay for

Gavin how do you maintain door gap without bracing it. With the channels rotted out and lifted off the floor pan its only the roof left, won't it bent or move about?

 

[brightspark]

Thanks for mall your input. Any rough ideas what to charge for all the faults I described above, know its hard to say without seeing it. Dont really want to touch the thing but have a wedding to pay for

Gavin how do you maintain door gap without bracing it. With the channels rotted out and lifted off the floor pan its only the roof left, won't it bent or move about?

if u realy need the job and u think it will take 2days and have to give a price allow for 3 and if u cock up the price u have a day extra to make it up or do it on a day rate . give the guy the option

 

[Kafer_meister]

Thanks for mall your input. Any rough ideas what to charge for all the faults I described above, know its hard to say without seeing it. Dont really want to touch the thing but have a wedding to pay for

Gavin how do you maintain door gap without bracing it. With the channels rotted out and lifted off the floor pan its only the roof left, won't it bent or move about?

It will take ages. Charge lots. The general going rate would be around £300 per side for the channels, then you'll need to establish what you want to charge for all of the other bits and bobs. I wouldn't even dream of quoting less than a grand for that. Everything will be twice as hard to remove neatly as it's been so patched before.

Also, make sure you get the JP Group (Dansk) channels, and not the Klokkerholm ones. Have a look here as to why:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=503306

 

[octo0072000]

by the sound off your quick look you will end up replacing the rear floor pans if they are that bad
im afraid that sounds like a total strip and rebuild body off start with the floor pan and work upwards
way too many bodged bits and patches money wise charge a day rate

 

[clarkey31]

Thanks for mall your input. Any rough ideas what to charge for all the faults I described above, know its hard to say without seeing it. Dont really want to touch the thing but have a wedding to pay for

Gavin how do you maintain door gap without bracing it. With the channels rotted out and lifted off the floor pan its only the roof left, won't it bent or move about?

Hi it will move a bit but as long as you are carefull lifting it off it will be ok you then set the gap by measuring it , if they are that wrotten the gaps wont be right anyway.

Gavin