Using body filler...?

[steveo3002]

you get these snappy answers as you come across as someone that wants to do the bare minimum and get A1 results , it wasnt a few weeks ago you needed explaining in detail why slopping some rust cure over a huge scab wasnt a good enough repair and why it rusted again in short time

theres one way to do things and thats properly

 

[ajlelectronics]

Yes I fear that if he is looking for someone to tell him what he really wants to hear, he will be waiting a long time on this forum.

 

[The Z'eer]

you get these snappy answers as you come across as someone that wants to do the bare minimum and get A1 results , it wasnt a few weeks ago you needed explaining in detail why slopping some rust cure over a huge scab wasnt a good enough repair and why it rusted again in short time

theres one way to do things and thats properly

I'll openly admit I'm a novice in this field as previously stated. So is it any surprise that I was seeking information regarding the treatment of rust?

Yes, I purchased the Hammerite products in good faith that they would work as stated. I don't feel that's worthy of criticism since how was I to know the products would fail?

 

[The Z'eer]

Yes I fear that if he is looking for someone to tell him what he really wants to hear, he will be waiting a long time on this forum.

Not at all. Merely seeking advice, I haven't disagreed with any replies in relation to filler usage.

 

[The Z'eer]

I going to wade in here.

Standard car body filer, the ones without chopped glass fibre, is used, as all ready stated. The list below is an abridged of what ha all ready be said.

• To cover small flaws and imperfections in body panels.
  
  
  • It has no strength.
    
    
  • It is a water absorber, think sponge.
    
    
  • As a skim it will flex as a panel moves.

Yes, we all know there are glass fibre kits, expanded metal, and filler with crop matting. These are a modern addition to body filler to fill holes in “Non Structural Parts.”, Say a front bolt on wing.

They are not a replacement for a welded patch on a structural part, like a outer skill skin.

In the past less than sensible people have used those fillers and old newspaper to affix a repair instead of doing a correct and structural repair.

I have a old AA Book Of The Car, it shows chicken wire used in a sill repair. That was back then, when it was not a structural part.

You asked why it is frowned on, but what are you repairing or restoring, a good classic car would benefit with lead loading, a Mk1 Estcourt would be ok with a skim to cover up small defects.

I have never restored a car were some form of welding was not needed. But modern cars are now, and some from the past are moving away from metal and the tradition 2 part filler is not suitable.

A side note, in an insurance investigation a inspection of the car is carried out to find any use of filler. Any found may affect the claim.

Look inside a modern body shop and 98% of applied filler is wasted and lost in the sanding and flattening.

So why is it frowned on to use body filler.

• It is not strong enough to use to replace metal.
  
  
• It takes a lot to get a perfect finish.
  
  
• In the past it has been miss-used and used incorrectly.
  

With practise MIG welding can be easily taught and learn.

Much appreciated thanks for the advice there

 

[the snooper]

i think the op has had some unnecessary response's here if you don't know then you don't know, people have in the past and will probably continue to bridge holes in rusty car wings and so on with chopped fiberglass and skim with filler, also there are some body shops that use way over 1cm of filler, people that have no way of removing large dent stick a load of filler in them it was worse pre 90s when door bottoms and wheel arches were regularly seen dropping off, have some patience chaps if your patience has ran out don't post no one is forcing you

 

[norsa]

i think the op has had some unnecessary response's here if you don't know then you don't know, people have in the past and will probably continue to bridge holes in rusty car wings and so on with chopped fiberglass and skim with filler, also there are some body shops that use way over 1cm of filler, people that have no way of removing large dent stick a load of filler in them it was worse pre 90s when door bottoms and wheel arches were regularly seen dropping off, have some patience chaps if your patience has ran out don't post no one is forcing you

 

[norsa]

As I see it, there are a lot of purists on this forum who, rightly so will not take any short cuts when it comes to let's face it, mostly restoration jobs and as an old school operator myself, I believe in doing the job right, so applaud the purists. However, if we were all experts on the subject, there would be no need for a forum like this one that primarily is incredibly good at helping those who are new to it and often lost in terminology, here say and inaccurate advice. NO question is a stupid question if the definitive answer educates.
Nick

 

[steveo3002]

maybe you would be better to post of pics of your problem areas/project and we can run through the repair methods available to you , if you want to hear about cheaper /easier ways then just say so

 

[Parm]

As I see it, there are a lot of purists on this forum who, rightly so will not take any short cuts when it comes to let's face it, mostly restoration jobs and as an old school operator myself, I believe in doing the job right, so applaud the purists. However, if we were all experts on the subject, there would be no need for a forum like this one that primarily is incredibly good at helping those who are new to it and often lost in terminology, here say and inaccurate advice. NO question is a stupid question if the definitive answer educates.
Nick

Brilliant Response

 

[The Z'eer]

i think the op has had some unnecessary response's here if you don't know then you don't know, people have in the past and will probably continue to bridge holes in rusty car wings and so on with chopped fiberglass and skim with filler, also there are some body shops that use way over 1cm of filler, people that have no way of removing large dent stick a load of filler in them it was worse pre 90s when door bottoms and wheel arches were regularly seen dropping off, have some patience chaps if your patience has ran out don't post no one is forcing you

Thanks Snooper

I could trawl the net, reading information and advice in the relevant areas but such information at times is contradictory.

I find the best way is ask the questions themselves on a forum and if possible, when the opportunity arises speak directly to those in the trade. So far and pleasingly I've learnt a little here and there.

 

[The Z'eer]

maybe you would be better to post of pics of your problem areas/project and we can run through the repair methods available to you , if you want to hear about cheaper /easier ways then just say so

I'm attending to what I believe is feasibly possible myself, with the hope of producing a decent result. Without all of the required tools I appreciate it won't be a result that I'd receive from a quality bodyshop. However, that's ok with me and the areas which I feel require expert attention will receive it.

 

[Swift&Bold]

I'm attending to what I believe is feasibly possible myself, with the hope of producing a decent result. Without all of the required tools I appreciate it won't be a result that I'd receive from a quality bodyshop. However, that's ok with me and the areas which I feel require expert attention will receive it.

I respect that mate, too many people just take it to a garage or get a mate to do it without any interest at all.
I'm always interested in how people get results without all the fancy-shmancy kit (Tonybmw on retrorides does brilliant work with just a few, mainly homemade tools) however, when you're doing structural repairs or safety critical work around seat belts there's no other way to do it but properly and safely. Like most, I'm a member of several car forums, some model specific and I still find this is a great place for first class information regarding car resto work, so when you ask questions which appear to border on the 'cowboy job' or dangerous, without seemingly taking any notice of the advice given, it all gets a bit frustrating.
By all means carry on asking questions and tapping into the expertise on here but bear in mind the way that it can be interpreted.
Out of interest, are you a young fella? I only ask as there is a forum member here of school age who has received no end of invaluable help and is treated with complete tolerance largely because the members are aware of this.

 

[The Z'eer]

I respect that mate, too many people just take it to a garage or get a mate to do it without any interest at all.
I'm always interested in how people get results without all the fancy-shmancy kit (Tonybmw on retrorides does brilliant work with just a few, mainly homemade tools) however, when you're doing structural repairs or safety critical work around seat belts there's no other way to do it but properly and safely. Like most, I'm a member of several car forums, some model specific and I still find this is a great place for first class information regarding car resto work, so when you ask questions which appear to border on the 'cowboy job' or dangerous, without seemingly taking any notice of the advice given, it all gets a bit frustrating.
By all means carry on asking questions and tapping into the expertise on here but bear in mind the way that it can be interpreted.
Out of interest, are you a young fella? I only ask as there is a forum member here of school age who has received no end of invaluable help and is treated with complete tolerance largely because the members are aware of this.

I'm no youngster, though it'd be nice to turn back the clock from time to time With respect to asking questions of a so called "cowboy" nature, I was simply asking about filler and to it's usage. I enjoy learning the science to why something is best done in a particular manner. I think the problem is that many misinterpret further questioning as either an insult or a joke at their expense, I assure everyone this is not so. I do understand that it was a general opinion that certain corroded areas mentioned on another thread ought to be removed, however two professional sources in the trade stated otherwise. I'd like to think that I've learnt something here so far and certain techniques have been applied to which I have benefited from.

 

[langy]

Thanks Snooper

I could trawl the net, reading information and advice in the relevant areas but such information at times is contradictory.

I find the best way is ask the questions themselves on a forum and if possible, when the opportunity arises speak directly to those in the trade. So far and pleasingly I've learnt a little here and there.

I think you have hit the nail on the head here buddy, trawling the net will come up with 90% incorrect ways of doing a job, I see millions of web pages that are incorrect, much better to speak to someone that knows.

 

[GW8IZR]

I think you have hit the nail on the head here buddy, trawling the net will come up with 90% incorrect ways of doing a job, I see millions of web pages that are incorrect, much better to speak to someone that knows.

And then use your judgement based on how willing people are to explain their reasons to determine what is correct..

I tend to rate the 'bluster and willy waving' answers as low reliability and those that take care and time to explain their thoughts as high reliability.

 

[Gwil]

Epoxy filler is used extensively in the marine industry to fair steel hulls- which flex, vibrate etc. It survives well, how else do the Dutch make their steel hulls so fair? Never used to bridge holes though.

 

[Gwil]

I assume they don't buy their filler in halfords though...

True! There are good ready to use fillers, but most are made up as necessary from the huge range of filler media available. Selected for strength, ease of sanding etc.

 

[Gwil]

I also assume they do a little bit of testing and use appropriate thicknesses for the job and conditions and do proper prep.

It's a world away from someone lathering an inch of isopon over a rusty hole.

Very true. People forget as well that polyester resin- the basis of car filler- is not particularly successful as an adhesive. It bonds properly to itself only before curing, and doesn't bond that well to metal. Epoxy is far superior in adhesion to a well prepared substrate.

 

[johnakay]

when you mention epoxy,would epoxy glue be good enough?
or are we talking of a different stuff.