Used or new air-fed helmet?

[Chris152]

We're needing to get an air-fed mask for Mig, Tig and MMA. Money's an issue but it needs to be something that works and keeps working well. Looking on the bay, I can get a couple of years old Speedglas 9100 for a bit less than a new ESAB Sentinel 50 from a regular supplier with warranty. I've read reviews and understand the 3M is excellent, but new is too expensive. Parts for the 3M don't appear to be cheap if it chooses to go wrong - am I better off buying the Esab with a full warranty? It'll be used a couple of hours per day at most, and for the time being mostly at a bench - but I guess that'll change in time. A piece of string I'm sure, but just looking for opinions that might help guide our decision.

Thanks for any thoughts, Chris.

 

[Munkul]

I've got an esab a50 air, and had 9100fxs for work, also using an optrel airfed at current work.
Bench work is fine for the esab papr, but any site work or abuse will see it smashed fairly quickly.
The adflo packs are much more robust. I'd take a chance on a good condition 2nd hand one. Make sure the battery and charger are good, they're expensive.
I'd be interested to see what the new esab epr-x1 is like, it looks a lot better designed than the old papr.
The optrel ones are built like brick sh.thouses, but very heavy.

I still love my a50 best of all, it's a great tig hood. The papr is fine, battery lasts a long time.
But i wouldn't buy one for anyone who is rough on gear, it just wouldn't last.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Munkul. Out of interest, would the adflo pack fit an esab a50 helmet, or doesn't it work like that?

 

[hotponyshoes]

I've got a couple of Used optrel air-feds available, shout if you want any details

 

[hotponyshoes]

Thanks Munkul. Out of interest, would the adflo pack fit an esab a50 helmet, or doesn't it work like that?

The 3m adflow won't fit an esab mask.
If it's for your own use (not a workplace) then there is not much to stop you connecting one to the other though.

 

[Chris152]

I've got a couple of Used optrel air-feds available, shout if you want any details

Thanks - Let me do some more research on this and I'll get back to you?

 

[Munkul]

I've got a couple of Used optrel air-feds available, shout if you want any details

If its the PAPR E3000's, they're very beefy units, like i said I think they're built crazy strong, the 3 we have seem to be reliable (3 years old) and decent on battery, can easy get a full shift out of one. Filters are good value, similar to 3M.
Downside is that they're heavy and bulky, but you can't have it all...
Light and flimsy vs heavy and strong...
Bottom line: I'd have one.
The E684 hoods are pretty decent too.

I prefer my A50, its light and super comfortable, but that's personal preference.

 

[Chris152]

Hmmm, I've been struggling to find the Sentinel a50 Air in stock at the main suppliers, then saw this on Weldtech:
'The Sentinel A50 Air Helmet is now obsolete and has been replaced by the Sentinel A60 Air Helmet (0700 600 861)"
Of course, the a60 is that much more expensive... :-(

 

[Munkul]

The A60 looks like a nice upgrade over the A50, bigger screen isn't super important but very welcome.
The EPR-X1 also looks like a decent upgrade.
If they're as good as they look, the £700ish is very good value for the package.

 

[Ged93]

We tested different brands , but 3M is the best .
Solid and durable , but the main thing is the capacity to keep air (really) clean , , with the right filter you can block also smells . And if you are grinding a lot , or welding galvanized stuff , you will definetely feel the difference , and you lungs will thank you .
We tried a cheap brand called CleanAir ( owned by Malina Safety company , which owns 3M too ) , but it was a real s*it .
Optrel filter makes me smile , how can you pretend to clean air with such a small pack ?? Come on.
3M forever .

 

[Munkul]

We tested different brands , but 3M is the best .
Solid and durable , but the main thing is the capacity to keep air (really) clean , , with the right filter you can block also smells . And if you are grinding a lot , or welding galvanized stuff , you will definetely feel the difference , and you lungs will thank you .
We tried a cheap brand called CleanAir ( owned by Malina Safety company , which owns 3M too ) , but it was a real s*it .
Optrel filter makes me smile , how can you pretend to clean air with such a small pack ?? Come on.
3M forever .

Have you seen the filter on the e3000? Its a very decent size.

 

[hotponyshoes]

The optrel e3000 has multiple speeds,
On max its 240lpm compared to the 200lpm of the 3m Adflow.
They both meet the relevant specs for filtering so should both be perfectly safe.

You can also get special/odour filters for the optrel.
One advantage of the optrel is you can fit the odour filter in addition to the standard filter.
So, the expensive optrel odour filters last a lot longer than the expensive 3m odour filters.
They do increase the size of the belt pack though which can be awarded in tight spaces.

The optrel blower unit is bigger than the 3m but not much heavier. The optrel belt is wider and thicker so it's actually more comfortable (unless you are a sub-10 stone whippet)

You can get shoulder harnesses for both of them.

One advantage of the 3m is the popularity, pretty much every welding supplier in the country stocks the consumables for them..

If you want really comfortable have a look at the optrel swiss air. That's mounted on the shoulders/upper back and really comfortable even over just a thin layer.of clothing. Not as easy/quick to get on and off as a belt system though.

 

[Ged93]

Last papr filter that optrel has launched is very small

 

[hotponyshoes]

Last papr filter that optrel has launched is very small

The Swiss air is the latest one,
The filter is pretty thin but does mean that the whole unit is probably only about 2" thick.
It's fully TH3 certified.
Air flow is a lot less than the e300 (or the 3m) at only 130lpm max.
But, it feeds a half-mask rather than the whole helmet so doesn't need the flow.
Main advantage is you can hardly hear it.
I got one for my dentist to use at work and it was him that asked me about it had been suggested to him by some other sort of medical chap.

The Swiss air is not really comparable to the others as its a different style all together.
It probably only weighs 1/2kg and (if you take the time to adjust the shoulder harness system correctly) feels like no weight at all once it's on.
Much more of a faff to put on/off as you need to don the harness, then the face mask, then the welding helmet. Does make it easier to swap between a welding helmet and a grinding visor or plasma goggles etc though and means you can just own one welding helmet for both air-fed and non-air fed jobs.
It's also so thin that you can sit in a chair with it on so you wouldn't even need to take it off at lunchtime...
Also, with the air intake up behind your shoulders it shouldn't be exposed to anything like the same amount of grinding dust etc. as a belt mounted so the filters should last longer.

 

[hotponyshoes]

One thing I would say is stick to the big names. 3m, optrel, esab, etc.

It's quite common to see the smaller companies release an 'own-branded' version with very tempting initial & consumable prices but they seem to stop stocking the filters once they have sold the first container load and you probably have bugger all chance of getting a replacement battery or adf if yours packs up in 5yrs time.

Esab are still selling new batteries for blowers that must be 20yrs old by now...

 

[Barking Mat]

I've got a couple of Used optrel air-feds available, shout if you want any details

What kind of money would you be looking for ?

 

[Chris152]

Quick one,
ESAB Sentinel A60 has 1 1 1 1 optical clarity;
Sentinal A50 has 1 1 1 2;
Speedglas 9100x and xx has 1 1 1 2 optical clarity.
So 'angle dependence on luminous transmittance class' (the last number, apparently) differs. We've read and watched some info on this but in practice, how much difference do you think it makes? Our current, non-air fed mask is 1 1 1 1, and I'm wondering if it'll be a significant decrease in quality.

 

[Munkul]

I have always maintained that the optical clarity numbers mean absolutely zero in real life, because:

1.They're all high quality lenses that you can see very clearly through.

2. Once you get a few scratches or spatter on the covers, the numbers instantly go out of the window.

3. Its all about contrast and how your eyes perceive the puddle. That's why true colour is ever so slightly better than plain green, just because the colours help your eyes see the puddle slightly better. But a high quality green filter works very well and some people still prefer it.

I very much prefer my colour A50 filter to the green XX filter, but the XXi is better as it is color and that's what I prefer.
The optrel crystal 2.0 is amazing. The lincoln viking 3350 4c filter is very good too.

Basically it's not a right or a wrong or a better, just pick what's right for you

 

[hotponyshoes]

Quick one,
ESAB Sentinel A60 has 1 1 1 1 optical clarity;
Sentinal A50 has 1 1 1 2;
Speedglas 9100x and xx has 1 1 1 2 optical clarity.
So 'angle dependence on luminous transmittance class' (the last number, apparently) differs. We've read and watched some info on this but in practice, how much difference do you think it makes? Our current, non-air fed mask is 1 1 1 1, and I'm wondering if it'll be a significant decrease in quality.

What's your location?
If you are anywhere near Frome iv got a couple of optrel panoramaxx here. One is the normal one 1,1,1,2. The other is a Quattro 1,1,1,1.
Trying both of those on (if you are) local is a good way to tell the difference that the extra "1" makes as apart from that they are both identical in every other regard.

If you compare the a60 to the a50 or the 3m or whatever the adf distance/position and distance to the outer lense will all make a difference as well so you won't truly be able to assess how much different the "1" is.

 

[hotponyshoes]

What kind of money would you be looking for ?

As much as possible
Used/scuffy e3000 blower with a e680 helmet would be £300 with a starter pack of spare lenses/filters etc.
Panoramaxx quattro in very tidy condition would be £550
Got some odd bits as well if you wanted to mix and match something like a new blower with a used helmet etc..