trouble with MIG welding

[dick]

i bought a wolfe MIG 140X system and have had no luck as the lower settings are too low to carry out welds with my domestic 13a circuit ..the electrican says i need to upgrade to a 6mm cable and C type circuit breaker of a larger size and the price will be over 200 quids. the wolfe MIG
its not an invereter type which i understand are more meaty ..right now i am thinking of moving over to a weldmate T143 arc tig welder as my supply is not man enough to do the job without bigger cables ..
on 1 2 3 setiing its no use and on 4 its better but the breaker trips too easilly and my welds are brittle and just fall aprt . so what do i do? i never see queries about power supplies on forum discssions ..not everyone has an industrial 3 phase supply at their disposal

 

[dick]

i am using a gas bolttle of 80% argon and 20% co2 btw ..its running ok

 

[dick]

mcb on a MK consumer unit .its a B16 cb ,the electrician says i need a C type breaker and bigger cables ,i use a extention lead which has 13a fuses and they dont blow. the welds are rubbish and very bad with holes and weld wont flow at all .. the circuit may not be a ring but it has twin scokets in 2 places in the garage... he looked at the wolfe manual electrical requirments and sucked thru his teeth in horror at my lack of compliance

 

[xmetal]

The extension lead may be the problem. Have you tried connecting the welder directly to the socket and trying it from there? Try using the welder as the only item on the circuit in the garage.

 

[rikrobson]

what is the spec of the extension. its probably causing a voltage drop at the welder. this is likely to cause a higher current at the MCB.

Now you are saying that it isn't tripping, but poor welds on 1,2&3 but trips on 4? this is to be expected on a 16A breaker

IIRC the Wolf has a 40A minimum current. This is a bit high for thin stuff, but the voltage drop on the extension would probably compensate for that.

So it looks like there is something wrong with the welding itself and not the supply.

what are you trying to weld?

the welds are rubbish and very bad with holes and weld wont flow at all ..

what gas are you using as it sound like you aren't using gas. If not are you using flux cored wire? Also is the polarity correct?

 

[dick]

the extention is a reeled cable at 13a ,about 30 feet long ,reeled up its 6a and fully unwound its 13a rated . polarity is correct ,red and black to the right studs. gas is a mini bottle at 86% argon and 14% co2 .i didnt have it unwound though so that could be the problem ...checking it next . the reeled MIG wire is the coper coated wire at 6mm .. it doesnt trip on the 1 2 3 settings but does trip on 4 and above settings..will try it next direct to the plug on the wall .however the power cable is short and it wont reach right now .. the gas hisses at the gun ok.. just thin gauge steel no more than 2mm wall being welded

 

[BrokenBiker]

I don't want to burst anyone's bubble here but running 16 amp supply won't give you any more power on such a small unit...

You need to find out why the breaker is tripping and I would suggest the extension lead is first port of call...30ft of cable will give a small voltage drop but it may be enough to cause problems...plug the welder in direct and try it...if it is still blowing breakers then maybe a higher supply is needed but I doubt it...what info is on the welders data plate regarding input currents?

 

[Robotstar5]

the extention is a reeled cable at 13a ,about 30 feet long ,reeled up its 6a and fully unwound its 13a rated .....i didnt have it unwound though so that could be the problem ...checking it next

Good job the MCB tripped or you may not have been able to unreel it due to it melting!. If it's a normal domestic extension lead the cable is not going to be thick enough for a welder, best to make or buy one with 2.5mm² cable.

 

[rikrobson]

the disposeables need to be fully open. that sounds like the problem, but it will only last about 10 minutes. is there any gas left? you should hear the hiss of the gas when the trigger iss pulled. (watch the wire feed if you test it)
Dont use the extension wound up. get a thicker one the right length. how long does it need to be.
6A equates to about 40-50 welding amps

 

[BrokenBiker]

the disposeables need to be fully open. that sounds like the problem, but it will only last about 10 minutes. is there any gas left? you should hear the hiss of the gas when the trigger iss pulled. (watch the wire feed if you test it)
Dont use the extension wound up. get a thicker one the right length. how long does it need to be.
6A equates to about 40-50 welding amps

Think we have found the problem...

 

[dick]

i tried it without the reel into the socket direct and it trips on just pulling the trigger to get a wire feed on setting 4 as always ,but it doesnt trip on 1 2 3 settings on just a wire feed . and i have tried it running clockwise and anti clockwise ,now its on anti clockwise off the reel .. the reel of wire looks ok no snags or lose bits getting snagged ..
the sparky didnt suggest any type of breaker just said you need bigger cable and a board etc etc 220 quid ...cant figure that out on just the wire feed alone it trips

 

[rikrobson]

it will always trip on 4 unless you change the breaker.

you should be able to weld perfectly well on 1, 2 or 3 the supply will not affect the welder.

From what you desribe of the weld the problem is the gas, or to be precice the lack of it.

You can either resolve the lack of gas issue open the reg fully on the disposables or renew the bottle (they dont last long 10 minutes ish)
Or you can get a better gas supply with a decent reg on a refillable bottle (many options are available)
Or use flux cored wire. its a mit messy and not really for thin stuff.

 

[Miggy89]

sorry are we talking direct household electric supply or a spurred supply in to an out building? the reason i ask is because i had the same thing that my mig would trip the rcd when used in the shed but not in the house so when i checked the electrics in to the shed it had been spurred from only the mains lighting circuit that was only a 5amp & not from the socket circuit so would always trip when trying to use mig off it

 

[dick]

ok lets say i revert back to no gas settings inside the welder how should i get results of any kind ?
as said its the house MK power unit on the house/garage wall which feeds the house and the garage lighting and power sockets also .
its not a spurred unit to an out building .. cables to the garage sockets are around 30feet away from the dist board .
the board has a B32 rcd incomer and oven on a B32 and hob on a B32 and ring circuits on B32s for up and down ring sockets ,and i believ the B16 is on the garage sockets . i didnt install it but just reading the names underneath the breakers

 

[rikrobson]

you should be ok power wise if you don't go to setting 4.
What exactly are you trying to weld?
what wire are you using?
(.9mm flux cored wire -ve torch and +ve earth for gassless) it will leave whire residue due to the flux that will wire brush off.

 

[dick]

just thin wall tubing ,welds using 1 2 3 settings just fall apart . weld wire is .6mm copper coated
just tried it on no gas and still trips on 4 . welds are small blobs and it wont run into a pool. looks lik a rewire of the garage or move to a arc tig unit

 

[Dale allison]

Sounds like a job for the cooker socket, we put some cable from work in ours and a plug on the other end for welder, works fine no trips etc... I got a 140 set and full power on 5mm works ok, obviously after 5 mins have to wait for the cycle :/ think I'll just end up with a gene set tbh can't be bothered with the hassle or the bills, but ye I'd try wiring to the cooker socket

 

[dick]

yep i am going with the C32 CB and a ring main extra 2.5 cable on the single spur AND another circuit on another C32 with 6mm cable to a cooker unit as cant tolerate all this touble.. so 2 circuiits just in case should do it

 

[dick]

i upgraded the leccy supply to 6mm cable and C32 cb and all is well now ..

 

[windingroads]

Good to hear you are sorted, general domestic sockets are not the thing, anyone considering
a bit of work would benefit from the CB upgrade and the heavier wire is a must.

All the best with your welding.

Regards, john