Trailer towing

[armalites]

' If it was purely about making drivers safer, it would be included in the test.

To be fair probably 90% of drivers will never tow a trailer in their lives.

Being pedantic it's not about making drivers safer it's making drivers towing trailers safer and there is a difference.

Everyone who took a test after that date should have know the rules and if you entered into a job that required you to use a trailer then it wouldn't have been a surprise that you couldn't do without a test.

If it's a requirement for a job then your employer should pay for it just like they would for a forklift test or other safety certificate. If it's for your own business then it's probably tax deductable.

Sadly it's just another thing in life that doesn't suit everyone.

 

[chrisg3103]

I was looking into taking my test just before everything went belly up. Here are the options for jim mair in ayr, who seems highly regarded.

Our standard course is over 2.5 days at £395.00 + Vat Plus £115.00 test fee or we have a 2 day course option for individuals with experience at £350.00 + Vat plus £115.00 test fee.

Alternatively Highfield heavies in dalry are £350 inc test, but is a one day shot so need a bit of experience.

Prices might have changed, was in February.
If you want a loan of a decent sized trailer for practice send me a message. About 5 x 10ft 4 wheel, but only plated to 1500kg so its usable for us youngsters, depending on tow car weights..

 

[s410man]

'

I am of the mind-set that if you have been deemed to be safe enough to drive on the roads (and paid handsomely for the privilege), then using the metrics at the time - you should be able to use the full functionality of your vehicle without having to pay an additional "extra" at a later date. If it was purely about making drivers safer, it would be included in the test.

Surely a car test is for driving a car and a trailer test is for driving a car with trailer?

2 completely different things

In a car test things like reversing a trailer, hitching a trailer, trailer noseweights and different regulations that apply when towing a trailer arent covered atall

All quite important things to know before towing in my opinion but for a big percentage of people who never tow a trailer it would be completely useless information

 

[MetalMonkey]

Being pedantic it's not about making drivers safer it's making drivers towing trailers safer and there is a difference.

I know what you are saying, but I can't agree - Some of the worst and most dangerous towing I have ever seen is done with perfectly legal combinations that do not require a towing test.
Making it safer IMO would be including towing (which everybody’s licence allows them to do, and the majority of vehicles can be equipped to do) as part of the standard test.

I feel it has less to do with safety, and more to do with revenue.

Everyone who took a test after that date should have know the rules and if you entered into a job that required you to use a trailer then it wouldn't have been a surprise that you couldn't do without a test.

If it's a requirement for a job then your employer should pay for it just like they would for a forklift test or other safety certificate. If it's for your own business then it's probably tax deductable.

Sadly it's just another thing in life that doesn't suit everyone.

That was more or less my point - the test fees are high because they know that most of people taking the test have no other option or a business is paying for it, so they can jack the prices up and people will pay.
If you only need to occasionally tow for personal use you either have to risk not getting caught or pony up a considerable amount of cash.

Surely a car test is for driving a car and a trailer test is for driving a car with trailer?
2 completely different things

In a car test things like reversing a trailer, hitching a trailer, trailer noseweights and different regulations that apply when towing a trailer arent covered atall

All quite important things to know before towing in my opinion but for a big percentage of people who never tow a trailer it would be completely useless information

The modern test now covers basics like checking fluids and tyre pressures (which is a good thing IMO), but if your car is equipped with a tow hitch why not nose weight and hitching too?
Let’s not forgot that a standard B licence allows you to tow a trailer from day 1, the only discrimination is the weight.

So surely you are either:

a) Deemed safe to pull a trailer with no training, providing it is within the rated capacity of the vehicle. (In which case why the separate test?)

Or

b) Deemed not safe to pull a trailer without specific training (In which case, why not remove towing altogether or just include it in the standard test).

It makes no sense to issue a test which doesn't cover towing, but still allow people to tow, but only allow some people to tow some things depending on an arbitrary date.
How can it be that two people who passed the same test and have never had any experience towing a trailer can jump in the same vehicle, pulling the same trailer and one be legal and the other not?

Worse still, once you have paid out for B+E, you find that there is a further restriction applied of an upper weight limit of 3500kg, unless you took it before 2013 - so again, same test, different rules, another arbitrary date.

I understand that there has to be a cut-off point when introducing new regulations, but the way the entire system is applied is a mess.
Yes, a heavier load can be more dangerous - but larger trailers are inherently more stable and better built and arguably safer than those terrible £200 jobs you regularly see fishtailing down the motorway.

Include an extra couple of hours tuition on trailers and add a few quid on the standard test fee and be done with it - safer, clearer and more convenient for everybody.

 

[sako243]

Not sure how thats more?

My 5.2T can carry about 2.5T & tow 3500kg if fully loaded.

A full on 7.5T could have a trailer plated to 4500kg.

Or a 6000kg van could tow 6000kg on C1E.

Or even more in a 5th wheel set up.

You missed my point unless you have the +E entitlement, without that you're limited to 750kg behind the lorry like you would be with a car. The 6x6 is capable of 2t payload and 4t behind it without requiring a cat C (but you do need B+E for the trailer).

Incidentally there's no mention of requiring coupled brakes for the 4t trailer and being a 1982 vehicle it was built before all the EU regs came into play

 

[armalites]

The car test is £62 at the moment and lasts about 40mins, the trailer test is £115 and is about 75mins so relatively speaking the trailer test isn't anymore expensive.

Include an extra couple of hours tuition on trailers and add a few quid on the standard test fee and be done with it - safer, clearer and more convenient for everybody.

Doing that I guarantee that there will 1000% more people moaning because they failed on a part of the test that they are never ever likely to use.

I do genuinely feel for people who have to add this extra but I still think it's a good thing and it should always have been the case. I was fortunate that I had towed a trailer before I was ever old enough to do it on the road so even though I didn't have to do a test I had some experience.

I genuinely don't think it's right anyone should be able to just jump in a vehicle with a 3.5t trailer behind when they have never so much as moved a vehicle with a trailer on. Even with thousands of mile of experience and using a large 4x4 with a 16' Ifor I still see situations where someone who was new could easily have ended up a statistic.

Our lives are full of these kind of anomalys and it always has been.

 

[8ob]

You missed my point unless you have the +E entitlement, without that you're limited to 750kg behind the lorry like you would be with a car. The 6x6 is capable of 2t payload and 4t behind it without requiring a cat C (but you do need B+E for the trailer).

Incidentally there's no mention of requiring coupled brakes for the 4t trailer and being a 1982 vehicle it was built before all the EU regs came into play

I think the maximum permitted for over run brakes is 3.5 ton Ed, its not a licence thing its more of a construction and uses criteria.

Bob

 

[jimbo84]

Aye but who’s going to check, never the ministry, they’re usually too busy tugging folk for having a light out when the showman’s vehicles are passing, they don’t want the hassle of dealing with them

Usually a 40 year old shed pulling a road train with a 60 year old caravan being dragged at the back with the wagon about as airtight as a sieve. Had one pass me and couldn't believe the amount of air leaking out of the thing, surprised the compressor could keep up.

 

[Ruffian]

You missed my point unless you have the +E entitlement, without that you're limited to 750kg behind the lorry like you would be with a car. The 6x6 is capable of 2t payload and 4t behind it without requiring a cat C (but you do need B+E for the trailer).

Incidentally there's no mention of requiring coupled brakes for the 4t trailer and being a 1982 vehicle it was built before all the EU regs came into play

I would be interesting in clarification on that.

As I put in the post earlier.

750kg + car even if passed test after 98.
You can legally tow without +e,
So lwb sprinter weighing 3500kg +750kg trailer. (So max of 4.25t train weight)

Or if the trailer is over 750kg combined weight is up to 3.5tonne.

Ie car 2000kg towing 1400kg caravan is perfectly legal provided train and axle weights etc etc.
(So large trailer has to be sub 3.5ton)

So why not the same for c1 licence.

Ie 7.5 tonne truck with 750kg trailer or

5tonne sprinter with 2.5 ton trailer so still under 7.5tonne

 

[mr migwire]

heres a question for you all, whats the speed limmit on uk roads towing a trailer??? I know the answer as i was taught it as part of my trailer test with the army, but it would appear pretty much every "grandad rights" driver pulling a wobble box doesn't have a clue, hence the fishtailing all over the shop, oh and that leads to the next issue, correct loading of a trailer, nose weight etc, again mr grandad rights chucks all of the carp associated with his wobble box in the door which is usually towards the rear of the van and guess what the result of that is.....

and not so single out wobble box owners there are other grandad rights driver that get it wrong to...

and dont get me started on horse boxes, my dad and i used to attend shows, we had a pair of clydesdales we worked, the ammount of people driving (insert 4x4 of choice here) and a horse box asking other to reverse it for them was unreal.

my point is the trailer test is more than just a money making scheme, it teaches you the basic skills required to be safe on the road with a load behind you, as for the line drawn in the sand and starting the test from a fixed point, well they had to start somewhere and realised something needed done about the ammount of accident involving trailers (predominantley caravans) so the test was introduced, my sphincter twiches when i'm driving down the inside lane of the M6 heading south to leeds and a geriatric in his XC volvo goes steaming past me with his wobble box in tow sitting at 80mph sooking a boiled sweetie whilst max bigraves is blaring out of the cd player.........

 

[Ruffian]

60 on a motorway
50 on a dual carriage way
Trying to think if 40 or 50 on single.

(Educated guesses)

 

[arther dailey]

When you see on local facebook on a misty morning the number of people admitting they don't know where the fog light switch is . . . after admitting they didn't know you are not supposed to use them unless its reduced visibility . . .

Or go on a caravan site and watch people spend 5 mins trying to drop the hitch over the tow ball with the motor mover on the van rather than simply reverse up to it and drop it on . . .

Or just watch someone try to reverse . . . or fit between the white lines in a car park . . . or get within a short bus ride of the kerb . . . without a trailer . . . or just drive through Bradford . . .

Then you know why there has to be a test . . .

And they PASSED the test

 

[bricol]

Maybe we just need to go back to local councils issuing driving licences every year, or wartime regs where there was no test, but your licence covered everything - only thing my dad's licence didn't appear to cover on the road was a pedestrian controlled lawnmower . . . Maybe remove all MOT requirements too?

 

[Gritineye]

I still reckon it's right and proper that I could drive my 11.5 ton unladen Scammell Explorer with a 5 ton living van behind on my car licence....

Being a heavy locomotive it can legally pull 2 trailers, might need a different licence for that.

BTW that's not the living van..

 

[Chris Snow]

Did B+E a few years ago but have been driving trailers since around 13 (private land) and smaller trailers once i had a car license. Reversing is pure practice and experience. Do that as much as you can. No need for an instructor to learn that.

I did 1 day tuition and the test the following morning.
Instructor made me do the reversing test first to gauge skill. Nailed it first time so spent the day breaking 10 years of bad habits and how pass the test to HGV standard, which has some odd quirks clearly designed for bigger vehicles that you need to do.

Coupling procedure needs to be done correctly.and I nearly failed my test because of habit. Forgot to check the lights work (my car does that for me...) Examiner said something like are you finished coupling in a sort of you have forgotten something kind of way... Then I remembered and duly checked the lights!

Call an instructor and be honest with skill and see what they say. But expect 2 days of tuition if you have limited experience and 1 if you're already experienced.

 

[mike os]

Given the number of people i still see getting in trouble with trailers, the more supervised experience the better

 

[armalites]

60 on a motorway
50 on a dual carriage way
Trying to think if 40 or 50 on single.

(Educated guesses)

60 on dual carriageway and motorway
50 on single carriageway

 

[Ruffian]

All I know is when backing this up was a chuckle.

The only saving grace is the permanent reversing camera is aimed at the draw bar so could get a gauge of where the trailer was as couldn't see it my mirrors as trailer was circa 18" narrower than the van.

 

[Justme]

what about 6 weekly checks at the garage?

That goes with the O licence.

 

[Justme]

Opps sorry yes, when I was looking provided you go out with L plates your ok to get some practice. However, most people will pass with a weekend course. Might be worth asking your local place for a tester lesson, they can asses your level. The only thing you practice really is the dog leg reverse, everything else is standard dsa driving test stuff, mirrors signal manoeuvre, feed the wheel etc

Feed the wheel is not a dvsa requirement.