Towing

[arther dailey]

yup you are 100% correct, he didnt think it through quick enough eh ! being self employed the trouble is its making it more and more difficult to earn a honest living as there is so much red tape, dont read that wrong as i believe vehicles etc should be road worthy and drivers up to spec with qualifications etc but I sold my truck and ifor due to the overall costs being prohibative/non cost effective.

 

[colnerov]

Sure there is a member on here who does driver training, he would soon put us all straight on this.

Hi, yes, @Justme Is the man.

Colin

 

[arther dailey]

thanks, hopefully he will chime in and get us up to speed on actual regs.

 

[printcom]

Well I bought similar digger, although I had a suitable lorry and ifor tri axle trailer it would still be overweight,so I got a local firm with a 17 tonner, huge crane ,he loaded it ,and brought it back about 50 miles ,cost was £185.
He had a scale on the crane which told him actual weight, it was just under the limit at the distance he had to lift it , and due to huge crane his truck was nearly within its weight limit.
I have CPC, etc etc, and I would not move a digger that weight using a 7.5 ton truck, it will be overweight by nearly one ton, and the handling would be dangerous, saying that a MAN truck would be the better of all 7.5 tonners,but I still wouldnt!
Save your license and get a haulage firm to do it is my advice,believe me its not worth trying to do it yourself. Ask a couple local firms for a quote, mention no urgency fit it in with any other job when it suits you...and as I havent an account will obviously pay in cash. get my drift! Arther

Using haulage companies on a daily basis is not a cost effective option, as to being overweight on a 7.5 ton - most of the ones I have looked at have a payload of between 4.5 -5 ton before body, driver and fuel. If you allow a ton ish for those carrying 3 ton should not be problem - now getting the axle balance right might be a different story. To my mind the biggest headache with going the 7.5 ton route is the requirement for an operators license and all the red tape that goes with it.

Ah, but exceptions...

It's mainly the 'anything over 750kg' thing you stated.

Up to 3,500kg gross trailer (not train) personal use is excluded, as is moving kit to do your job (builder taking a digger to site to use himself, excluded - person delivering same digger for someone else to use, included).

Because I'm not a 'driver' and I'm only shifting things for me to use, I can do gtw of 8,250kg (or more depending on vehicle) with no cpc requirements and no other trailer testing (pre '97 licence).

After a lot of research I have to agree with PDG's interpretation. According to the DVLA website I have got C1E on my license which means I can tow upto 3.5 ton or gtw 11 ton but I still need that bloody operators license.

Thanks for all your input on this chaps - even if no one has a magic wand. Is there a pickup/tipper sub 3.5ton that will tow 3.5 ton that is bigenough to carry a 1.5 meter 4 in 1 front bucket.

 

[addjunkie]

Look at extended cab pick ups, bed is 1.7 ish long

 

[Ton-up]

Cabstar?

 

[God mode restorations]

Getting an operators licence ain't to bad to be honest. It's having a suitable premises. In my opinion the later the lorry the worse they get..most modern 7.5 tonne will just about carry three tonne. Deawoo do a 7.5 tonne that will almost carry four tonne.

 

[zzr1200]

... the cpc will soon be implemented on everything that is towed...

Just incorrect information above.


https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/exemptions-and-driver-cpc-fees#toc-0

 

[God mode restorations]

Just incorrect information above.


https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/exemptions-and-driver-cpc-fees#toc-0

I am not saying that's what they are going to do..it wouldn't surprise me if they did.vosa make up the rules as they see fit..

 

[zzr1200]

I am not saying that's what they are going to do..it wouldn't surprise me if they did.vosa make up the rules as they see fit..

....I know there was talk about tachographs in transits and the cpc will soon be implemented on everything that is towed..

I'm sorry but you are contradicting yourself.

 

[wookie]

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/exemptions-and-driver-cpc-fees#toc-0

So having looked at that site...

Exemptions

There are exceptions from the Driver CPC qualification for drivers of vehicles:

• carrying material or equipment to be used by that person in the course of his or her work, provided that driving that vehicle does not constitute the driver's principal activity*

*An example of a driver (also known as 'incidental driver') would be a brick layer who drives a load of bricks from the builder's yard to the building site and then spends their working day laying bricks. In this case, driving a lorry is incidental to their main occupation.

So if you are a digger driver then using a lorry to move your digger would fall under this exemption, since your main work is using the digger NOT moving it from location to location.

 

[zzr1200]

So having looked at that site...

Exemptions

There are exceptions from the Driver CPC qualification for drivers of vehicles:

• carrying material or equipment to be used by that person in the course of his or her work, provided that driving that vehicle does not constitute the driver's principal activity*

*An example of a driver (also known as 'incidental driver') would be a brick layer who drives a load of bricks from the builder's yard to the building site and then spends their working day laying bricks. In this case, driving a lorry is incidental to their main occupation.

So if you are a digger driver then using a lorry to move your digger would fall under this exemption, since your main work is using the digger NOT moving it from location to location.

You often see utility service vans towing mini diggers to a work site/job, the digger is being used as a tool to complete the job and is not being delivered to site for hire/reward, so no CPC required.

If the digger has been hired and is just being delivered to site for someone else to use then it is classed as hire/reward, so the delivery driver requires a CPC.



If a larger vehicle (HGV) is used this would also depend on the taxation class the vehicle is registered under, which is other total can of worms. Usually the driver is not driving/using the plant machine so would require a CPC to drive the delivery vehicle.

I once tried to understand the conditions for the "Showman's Class Vehicle's" that are allow to tow multiple trailers, l soon gave up on that one.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Can you imagine the uproar if they implemented the CPC for all towing vehicles!
You'd have the horsey set, the sailing set, the farmers and small holders, the gardeners, the caravaners, the off road motorcyclists, the car racing crowd, jet ski owners, canoeing clubs plus every Joe blogs with a box trailer up in arms.
The testing centres couldn't cope and who would administer it all!
No government in its right mind would legislate against such a large variety of groups with all their respective lobbying sections.

 

[pedrobedro]

I once tried to understand the conditions for the "Showman's Class Vehicle's" that are allow to tow multiple trailers, l soon gave up on that one.

That is a whole world of difference, I read for ages and still came out of it without a clue they are exempt from everything apparently.

 

[zzr1200]

That is a whole world of difference, I read for ages and still came out of it without a clue they are exempt from everything apparently.

I don't think even a police traffic officer would understand those vehicle operating conditions, they would probably just have a nose around the vehicle for any major faults and then just tell them to move on...if they were ever stupid enough to pull one over, in the first place.

 

[God mode restorations]

They run under special purpose vehicles I believe. That's another nightmare of stuff.

 

[colnerov]

Can you imagine the uproar if they implemented the CPC for all towing vehicles!
You'd have the horsey set, the sailing set, the farmers and small holders, the gardeners, the caravaners, the off road motorcyclists, the car racing crowd, jet ski owners, canoeing clubs plus every Joe blogs with a box trailer up in arms.
The testing centres couldn't cope and who would administer it all!
No government in its right mind would legislate against such a large variety of groups with all their respective lobbying sections.

Hi, There's no reason why they wouldn't do it and it all ties in with the tightened regulations around trailers being type approved and having VIN's. Plus the proposal for annual trailer testing, which they decided to implement a number of years ago but it needed some way of identifying the trailer which is how the type approval and VIN came about. This would not happen overnight and suitable notice would be given just like the, I think, 4 or 5 years for CPC on vehicles over 3.5 tonnes. There is of course the possibility of gaining revenue from this both directly and indirectly. Also since when have the government taken any notice of local interest groups.

Colin

 

[printcom]

No government in its right mind would legislate against such a large variety of groups with all their respective lobbying sections.

Hmm, if there is money to be made I am not too sure about that.

Getting an operators licence ain't to bad to be honest. It's having a suitable premises. In my opinion the later the lorry the worse they get..most modern 7.5 tonne will just about carry three tonne. Deawoo do a 7.5 tonne that will almost carry four tonne.

I agree getting the license is the easy bit if you have suitable premises, it's the rest of the Bo****ks that comes afterward with vehicle maintenance and so on. To my mind the Horsey folk are one of the worse offenders when it comes to vehicle maintenance - all their money goes the horses stomach or on vet bills.............

As to the CPC on all towing vehicles. The Farmers I know are half expecting it at some point as the distinction between agricultural work and other work becomes more and more defined, plus they are in the spotlight H&S wise.

 

[zzr1200]

They run under special purpose vehicles I believe. That's another nightmare of stuff.

Special Purpose Vehicle's are the likes of, dustcarts, fire engines, mobile fire control rooms, mobile emergency operating theatres and various other types of one purpose vehicle's.

As I understand, a Showman's Licence is another set of regulations governing the driving times, configeration/use including towing multiple trailers and the use of the vehicle.
Some of the Showman's Vehicle's will comply with SPV regs because of their designed purpose.

 

[arther dailey]

Using haulage companies on a daily basis is not a cost effective option, as to being overweight on a 7.5 ton - most of the ones I have looked at have a payload of between 4.5 -5 ton before body, driver and fuel. If you allow a ton ish for those carrying 3 ton should not be problem - now getting the axle balance right might be a different story. To my mind the biggest headache with going the 7.5 ton route is the requirement for an operators license and all the red tape that goes with it.



After a lot of research I have to agree with PDG's interpretation. According to the DVLA website I have got C1E on my license which means I can tow upto 3.5 ton or gtw 11 ton but I still need that bloody operators license.

Thanks for all your input on this chaps - even if no one has a magic wand. Is there a pickup/tipper sub 3.5ton that will tow 3.5 ton that is bigenough to carry a 1.5 meter 4 in 1 front bucket.

Iveco daily 3500 gross can tow 3500...thats why I use them..