totally confused

[stratcat]

Hello there,
I have taken a night school intro to welding course that covered oxy acet, mma and a bit of mig.
I want to get started but don't know what to buy. My budget is very limited. It will be used for general fabrication as well as repairs to motorcycles and maybe a bit of car bodywork in the future.
I have very steady hands and my tutor told me my gas welding was excellent so my first thoughts were to buy oxy acet and this is quite a versatile set up (although relatively expensive to set up), but I'm a bit bothered by having explosive canisters sat there! Also the cost of hire for something that would get used occasionally.
I enjoyed the mma part of the course, but I am concerned that I can't weld thin metal, (i.e. motorcycle mudguards, oil tanks etc). I thought about this first:
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/clarke-115n-easi-arc-welder
It seems even mig won't go too thin either.
Mig seemed a bit too fiddly with wire feeds/liners etc
Is the answer a TIG inverter? Can I use it for mma and then lower the amps to weld thinner steel or would I have to use tig to weld thin steel? something like this maybe?
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/arc-tig-85-power-inverter/path/plasma-cutters-arctig-welders
I know the answer is to pay more money for better gear, and/or a different set up for each job, but I really can't afford it.
Sorry for waffling on, but I am really confused as to what I need.
Thanks for reading

 

[irondarren]

Mig is suitable for welding thin material and higher speed production welding on thicker material (favoured choice for quick fabrication), cheap to run

MMA is still the best option for welding structural steel work, but is unsuitable for thinner material.

TIG, will weld thin material and relative thick sections produces the nicest look welds, but is the most expensive to run

Does that help?

 

[Drains]

Mig seemed a bit too fiddly with wire feeds/liners etc

Can you tie your shoelaces? Not too fiddly for ya?

I think you can manage mig. (even intransit89 can do it... sort of)

Darren has given you the basics so far, but tell us what thicknesses you want to weld, and what materials (just m/s, or stainless and ally too?), and further useful advice may be forthcoming.

 

[murex400]

[QUOTE
I think you can manage mig. (even intransit89 can do it... sort of)
[/QUOTE]

And thats with out a mask and his eyes shut

 

[stratcat]

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I will mainly be making things around the workshop (shed!), things like a bench out of mild steel, a blasting cabinet out of sheet (thickness to be decided).
But I will also be looking at welding stuff on my bike. I have at least two holes to fill in mudguards of a 1960's BSA.
How thin realistically can I weld with an MMA? I recon mudguards would be way too thin and I might be better off with TIG (more versatile?) I think I would eventually like to have a go at welding ally, but that is waaaay in the future.

I didn't mean MIG was fiddly to do, just fiddly with bits to go wrong with cheaper machines. I enjoyed the skill it took to weld with a stick, whereas the MIG was just point and press, not as satisfying, but does the job !
This was a root run topped off with two passes using mma

this is a piece welded using a corner joint and an internal fillet

and this is my gas welding

Sorry the pics are a bit blurry,

I have been looking through the site and you guys are trully helpful to us newbies.

Many thanks

 

[drjim]

If I can produce welds ike that when I get started I will be pleased!

 

[shenion]

The MMA welds look good. A bit more spatter than I'm used to. Is that AC or DC?

You can go thin with MMA if you have small rods. I have some 1/16" 7014 rods that do nicely on 0.050 steel Have tried some small 5013's and they work well on flat welds but need too much current to do inside corners to prevent slag inclusion.

7016 rods are supposed to be good for thin metal too.

You can do thin with MIG. Much easier. I would get a small MIG and use the arc welder for heavy stuff. That is what I do (Clarke 130EN and big MMA/TIG beast).

 

[daviddb]

If I can produce welds ike that when I get started I will be pleased!

If I can produce welds like that when I'm finished I will be pleased.

 

[drjim]

Say no more!

 

[stratcat]

Thanks for the complements guys.
The gas was after two, two hour sessions whilst the mma was done during the third of three two hour sessions.
The mma welds were done with an inverter of some sorts, so I don't know. Would that make it dc?

Shenion I understand I need to get different gear for different things but I can't afford different sets of gear at the moment, so am trying to work out what would be the best thing to get to do most of the things in one.

I have some 1/16" 7014 rods that do nicely on 0.050 steel

That must need very low current, lower than this is capable of?
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/clarke-115n-easi-arc-welder

 

[malcolm]

I enjoyed the skill it took to weld with a stick, whereas the MIG was just point and press, not as satisfying, but does the job !

MIG - being quick to achieve a basic competence seems a poor reason to avoid the process altogether. Do a forum search for work by member Lorenzo and try and figure out how he gets it that neat. That should provide some inspiration to continue with the process.

Yes the hobby MIGs can be a hassle. You have to chose carefully. It's not just wire feed, it's the arc quality too.

For a what do you need:

ARC: Cheap for thick stuff (2mm plus reasonably). Thinner is possible but positioning probably gets important.

GAS: Good for everything depending on nozzles. Skillful for basic standard, puts a lot of excess heat in so distortion on thin panels needs to be controlled. Can do brazing and unseize rusty bolts too.

MIG: Good for everything above 0.8mm. Can have excessive weld build up on sub 2mm, and for thicker stuff (6mm plus) it can be cheaper buying an additional arc welder.

TIG: Good for everything. A skilled process like gas (probably more so in terms of torch control). Less good for positional welding than MIG, but without the weld build up trouble on low thickness.

None of them are ideal, but that's the jist.

 

[stratcat]

Thanks malcolm,
I certainly wasn't knocking MIG at the end of the day if it gets the job done etc.
I've ruled out gas on safety grounds really even though it is the most versatile.
By excessive weld build up do you mean that the weld beads are big and would need to be ground.
By your reasoning then, a tig inverter would be best because
1. It can be used as an MMA and
2. With the gas kit can do thin stuff and ally etc
even though it may take some practice to become proficient

Thanks for taking the time to help me work through this one and answer my stupid questions.
Its typical that all these questions come to mind after the course has finished.

 

[shenion]

Thanks for the complements guys.
The gas was after two, two hour sessions whilst the mma was done during the third of three two hour sessions.
The mma welds were done with an inverter of some sorts, so I don't know. Would that make it dc?

Unless it was a real expensive inverter, it will be DC.

Shenion I understand I need to get different gear for different things but I can't afford different sets of gear at the moment, so am trying to work out what would be the best thing to get to do most of the things in one.

A MIG with 0.6mm wire will do fine.

That must need very low current, lower than this is capable of?
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/clarke-115n-easi-arc-welder

[/quote]

Mine can do 5 - 475A . Hard to say what the current was. I was just over the middle of the 5-60 amp range. Probably near 35A.

The smaller 7014 rods are sold in 1/2 lb packages. Might be worth giving them a try. I picked mine up on ebay for about $7US shipped. 7016's are supposed to work well too.

 

[stratcat]

I think I will go for a cheap TIG inverter.
That way I can do mma (hopefully down to quite thin material with shenions suggested 7014 rods) and maybe expand into TIG as I get more into it.

Many thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.