torch burnout questions

[Lawnmowerboy]

hi all i spent today welding 20mm thick plate together in large sections to make a digger bucket
after 20 mins of almost continuous welding i hade urned the torch out even though the boss had rigged up the water cooling bit for it
is there much we can do to prevent this
im using 1mm wire on a massive 500a esab machine with like a seperate wire feed unit about the size of my clarke on the top and agroshield light in a big ass bottle

any help
will

 

[Welderpaul]

Sounds like the cooler wasnt working.

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

hmm dunno
the water got hot though

 

[Engineer1964]

hmm dunno
the water got hot though

The water may get hot but was it circulating enough I've used toughgun torches water cooled on esabs and the water cooler can be very tempermental, especially if you don't use it all the time. You need to add an additive to the water to lubricate the pump and stop any algae growth.

But i'd say it was the Cooler that needs checking

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

yeah it dosent use the water a lot is there many ways to check it?

 

[Engineer1964]

yeah it dosent use the water a lot is there many ways to check it?

I would say the quickest way would be to disconnect the flow pipe to the torch at the torch end and see if you get a decent squirt come out, If it just drips or your just getting a trickle then the pump needs looking at.

What make of gun are you using??

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

its a parweld 35 i think, ill try pulling the pipe next time im in

 

[Hitch]

Sounds like the cooler to me aswell, either that, or is one of the hoses twisted/kinked in the sheath.....reducing the flow to the torch itself....if the torch is in good condition its probably not that.

 

[Engineer1964]

its a parweld 35 i think, ill try pulling the pipe next time im in

That would be your best bet, check the pipes see if you get a decent squirt through the flow pipe, if not you'll need to investigate the pump. Another issue i've seen with torch coolers is people tend to stick a bit of antifreeze in the water thats meant to be for their car.

You can't use this as automotive antifreeze has additives like silicates and phosphates which is ideal in a car but not suited for closed loop cooling systems and could end up damaging the pump. You need to buy the right additive which is made for the sole purpose of torch coolers.

let us know how you got on

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

well, the torch was in good condition someone said a bit of bleach raises the freezing temp and stops the pump getting monged up with algey

 

[Engineer1964]

well, the torch was in good condition someone said a bit of bleach raises the freezing temp and stops the pump getting monged up with algey

Personally i wouldn't put anything in there that shouldn't be, it looks like you may need to investigate the pump and tubes a bit more closely, With household chlorine bleach in the water, when the water evaporates the bleach stays behind as sodium chloride which you can see as a white dusty mark around where the water has evaporated.

Not saying that its the bleach that caused the problem, but it could contribute.

Another prob i sometimes associate with Cooler failure is when the tank has been allowed to stand emtpy for years and then 5 years down the line someone whats to use it. It don't always work.

let us know when you've found the fault

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

okay ill have a looksies next sat, if the water is circulating i may rig something up to get pumping through when im welding other bits without it cooling

 

[bpcoryton]

what amps are you running at?you sure you have got the fluid pump swiched on on the set? at a guess a parweld 35 torch (crap make of torch in my veiw)is a 350 amp rated torch? 1mm wire on 20mm plate isnt that heavey at the end of the day!i used to weld digger buckets&shears etc at a local firm,material rangeing from 10>100+mm running 1.6 multicore wire with bernard air cooled 'skeleton' torch,never any problems getting that hot even when doing multi runs(it was i that needed the fluid in take!)were in essex are you(pm me if you wish)if not that far i will come and have a look for you if you wish?
and to add that with that thickness plate you should be useing argoshield heavy (20%) not argosheild light,you wont get the penetration otheir wise.

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

okies will do, i'm in halstead but willing to pay costs if i cant fix it!
dont know of any pub bottle suppliers round 'ere do oyu

 

[dannyp]

sounds like a cooler problem

i use a 475 amp miller with water cooler and an arbicor binzel torch iirc its a 35 can weld for over an hour on high power with that thing and the torch and water bearly get warm

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

this was at 500 flat out, only cut out once its a really early esab machine before they were actually esab its something like elektro cansuimibez!

 

[bpcoryton]

i did just add about the sheilding gas your useing!i dont know of any 'pub' gas supplyers but you have to be carefull with pub gas types,unless it 100% pure CO2(dont forget theirs 2 types of take off as well for this gas!) thats all i would personely use if i couldnt use a known type of suppyer,learnt my trade useing CO2 on plate back in the day.

 

[Ed.]

Something doesn't sound right, if I understand this correctly, You are using a 350amp water cooled torch out on a 500amp MIG running flat out using 1.0mm wire and your torch gave up the ghost.

I would suggest getting a much bigger torch and up the wire size to 1.6 to 2.0mm for running at 500amps.

I don't think your MIG would be putting out 500 amps using 1.0mm wire as that wire is recommended to run at a max of about 260amps. Even 1.2mm wire has a recommended rating of 260-340 amps. Your MIG may have been set at max but it wouldn't be out putting it's full 500 amps.

The last time I ran 1.2mm at above 340amps in spray mode just for laughs, I ended up blowing holes in 20mm and the heat distortion was a shocker, recommended parameters for 1.6mm wire in spray mode is 290-400 amps at a voltage of 26-36 volts.

Maybe I am just missing something here.

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

i wasn't running it flat out it is usually we use it on te lower settings at about 100 to 200a

 

[Ed.]

Sorry, the way I read it in your post #16 was that you were running the MIG flat out at 500A at the time. If you were running that 1mm at between 100-200 amps then there should be no reason why the torch would have burnt out apart from a blockage in the coolant or that the pump had stopped working properly.

In which case I would just disconnect the water outlet line on the torch and put that end in a container and switch on the pump, use a watch to time it to see if it is pumping the correct volume per minute. Most pumps should push out about 1.3 to 3lts per minute to work properly, if that isn't pumping out that amount then put that fluid back in the tank and connect up the outlet line again, then take off the inlet line and time how much fluid comes out, if there is a huge difference between the inlet and outlet volume then there is probably a blockage in the torch some where.

One thing you didn't mention is, what exactly burnt out on the torch... liner, switch, water lines, diffuser etc?