To cheap or not to cheap

[Pigwelder]

Hi everyone,

I am looking to upgrade from my stick welder to a mig set. I have been stick welding on my farm since i was 14 and i think it's about time i moved onto a mig set.

My local dealer has a few second hand sets going and i would like some advice on which to go for. No1-Butters 175, No2-Kamanchi 185. The guy wants about £200 for either of these but i think i can get him down on the price.

I'm welding mainly 3mm box unto and above 10mm plate.

The second choice is to go for something new, i don't really want to go over £400-£500.

Thanks in advance.

 

[daleyd]

Factor into your budget for gas rental and a regulator as well!

 

[Spark plug]

With a 175-185a mig you will struggle to get good penetration over around 8mm, but if your happy using stick on the thicker material you'll be ok.

The machines don't sound too badly priced but without more details, age, condition etc. it's hard to say

 

[Pigwelder]

With a 175-185a mig you will struggle to get good penetration over around 8mm, but if your happy using stick on the thicker material you'll be ok.

The machines don't sound too badly priced but without more details, age, condition etc. it's hard to say

I'm not to sure on the age but Kamanchi don't seem to be in business anymore. The condition isn't great they've had a hard life by the looks of things. The seller is giving them both a full overhaul, and looking at his other machines he knows what he's doing.

 

[brightspark]

I'm not to sure on the age but Kamanchi don't seem to be in business anymore. The condition isn't great they've had a hard life by the looks of things. The seller is giving them both a full overhaul, and looking at his other machines he knows what he's doing.

but is there a guarantee with them and can u still get the parts

 

[Pigwelder]

Weldequip (site sponsor) does a good range of migs

below budget and takes 15Kg reels of wire - http://www.weldequip.com/parweld-171c-mig.htm

Just above your budget are the portamig sets
http://www.weldequip.com/portamig-mig-welders.htm

R tech also does an inverter mig / mma set in your budget

http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/welding_equipment/Mig_Welder/Mig_Welder_R-Tech_IMIG180

United welding have the following, which you might be able to get for 500

http://www.unitedwelding.co.uk/ther...e-230v-ce-for-mig--tig--arc-welding-168-p.asp

I like the look of the ThermalArc i wish i'd seen that before getting my last stick welder

 

[Kent]

The Migs you mention (based on their power range duty) wont cut the mustard on the thicker stuff you talk of. Outside of production work for box section frames and plate to 10mm as you mention- I shouldn't even consider the type of plant you suggest, it gives no advantages if you can stick weld decent- especially plugging into 13amp, off a 32 amp plus socket there are some higher duty sets but a stick set with the modern gizmos to maximise power and possibly scratch TIG is my choice.
Stick just runs hotter for the amps

 

[Richard.]

3-10mm I agree with the above statement from Kent. A 175-180 amp mig ain't gonna do the higher end of that scale like an mma welder would with a 3.2-4.0 mm rod. If your a competent stick welder and want to mig weld then use your £500 for a multiprocess machine that should cover your needs.

 

[Pigwelder]

3-10mm I agree with the above statement from Kent. A 175-180 amp mig ain't gonna do the higher end of that scale like an mma welder would with a 3.2-4.0 mm rod. If your a competent stick welder and want to mig weld then use your £500 for a multiprocess machine that should cover your needs.

Thanks for the reply i have started a new thread as i have decided to go for a multi process unit. I'm looking at the thermal arc 181 or my local dealer has a sif welder 200amp that he'll do for the same price.

 

[Richard.]

Thanks for the reply i have started a new thread as i have decided to go for a multi process unit. I'm looking at the thermal arc 181 or my local dealer has a sif welder 200amp that he'll do for the same price.

That sounds like the sort of thing you need. Use the mig to lash up the 3-6mm thickness then mma on the 8-10.
A 3.2 electrode @ 120 amp will weld thicker material better and stronger than maxing out a 175 amp mig.

 

[Pigwelder]

That sounds like the sort of thing you need. Use the mig to lash up the 3-6mm thickness then mma on the 8-10.
A 3.2 electrode @ 120 amp will weld thicker material better and stronger than maxing out a 175 amp mig.

Thanks, i think the combi welder idea is great, i am worried slightly that like many machines that are designed to do many jobs, corners are cut on, which makes them not as good as single units. I am looking forward to being able to weld a wider variety of materials like 2mm stainless. I have been using stainless rods up until now which are great but i hear a mig is much better for this.

 

[daleyd]

Thanks, i think the combi welder idea is great, i am worried slightly that like many machines that are designed to do many jobs, corners are cut on, which makes them not as good as single units. I am looking forward to being able to weld a wider variety of materials like 2mm stainless. I have been using stainless rods up until now which are great but i hear a mig is much better for this.

Ive got an Rtech 200 amp multi process machine, and I think that for Arc and Mig it has all the features you could reasonably expect of each of those type of machines, bearing in mind it's price point. Where it falls over slightly is the Tig function (No HF start, limited adjustments etc) but even so it's still perfectly usable.

For me at any rate, the flexibility of being able to do 3 different types of welding more than outweighs any perceived compromises. I've had mine for > 2 years and I'd get another multi process in a flash.

 

[Richard.]

Yeah but been multi process chances are it will have lift Tig which will be wonderfull for 2mm stainless.

 

[Pigwelder]

Yeah but been multi process chances are it will have lift Tig which will be wonderfull for 2mm stainless.

I've never used Tig before, and i was looking for a mig/mma unit only but the option to be able to use it in the future is really appealing and seeing as i'm looking to build a new workshop later on in the year means i'll have the room to experiment.

 

[daleyd]

I don't think the Jasic ones have TIG function, but the Thermal Arc, IFL iTECH 170 and the bigger Rtech (250 amp) model do for sure.

 

[Kent]

Thanks, i think the combi welder idea is great, i am worried slightly that like many machines that are designed to do many jobs, corners are cut on, which makes them not as good as single units. I am looking forward to being able to weld a wider variety of materials like 2mm stainless. I have been using stainless rods up until now which are great but i hear a mig is much better for this.

most of my work is in around farms and such, there is very little three phase here those that have it have either always been a large dairy farm and were set up that way from the get go or run it from their own generator. I am about to buy The thermadyne 252i multi process MIG, MMA, TIG (subject to a trial) one of the main reasons I am going for this set is the 24.5 amp input fuse rating for full function of all processes. Its a 300 amp set BUT rated for 250 at std duty cycles in reality it will not be worked that hard as its a lot more than you need to run at for any real time, its the proper 200 amp cycle I am looking at.
Now if I plug into 13amp mains I am only going to get about 120 amp, which means sheet and general 3mm box with mig and 3.2mm electrodes with MMA (which will push what I can do over the MIG due to the mentioned increased heat etc)
When I am back at base being in the same area I am still limited to 240v unless I run a generator but then I use at least 40% less energy over a 3 phase plus the cost of running in the supply and that will only be used at up to 250 amp max anyhow.
This is a considerably more expensive bit of kit than the 181 or 211 but take care again I don't think even if you run off a higher fused output you can get the duty for heavier work with this set or the 211 (the 211 only states a max at 20% duty in fact) that plant is a handy thing though for other site work as its duel voltage 110v / 240v

 

[Bill Edwards]

TIG is a nice idea as it isn't a lot more money to buy the torch to go with it when buying a welder that can do it.

However, it does require a different gas to the MIG (pure argon) so be aware of that! You'll end up having to rent two bottles, not just one.