- Thread starter Brad93
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Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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MetalMonkey
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John Ward has an excellent video on these types of generic timers if you haven't seen it.
A1 is the live, A2 is the neutral, Y1 is basically the signal which you can switch to live to cause it to do stuff.
Depending on what mode you have it configured in, it can activate as soon as power is applied to the line connections, or when it is triggered by the signal connector.
A1 is the live, A2 is the neutral, Y1 is basically the signal which you can switch to live to cause it to do stuff.
Depending on what mode you have it configured in, it can activate as soon as power is applied to the line connections, or when it is triggered by the signal connector.
daleyd
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...and also brings the heater relay/contactor 4k3 on/off at 4 sec intervals.
I think the heater is always ON if 4 s1 is on AND the humidity (4b1) demands it AND 4b3 is on (doesn't really say what 4b3 is)
NC Contact of 4k4 energises the timer relay 4k5 to cycle at 4 sec intervals until 4k4 is activated by whatever it is (Current possibly?) when it turns the heater off (Stops cycling)
I think the heater is always ON if 4 s1 is on AND the humidity (4b1) demands it AND 4b3 is on (doesn't really say what 4b3 is)
NC Contact of 4k4 energises the timer relay 4k5 to cycle at 4 sec intervals until 4k4 is activated by whatever it is (Current possibly?) when it turns the heater off (Stops cycling)
Brad93
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Sorry just getting back round to reading this.
So machine is a proofer. Raises the humidity and temperature inside a sealed stainless steel room.
What happened is, one of the solenoids failed, short to earth. Was blowing a fuse. Easy, replaced the solenoid.
Solenoid was then running water wide open, flooding the place.
Tested the recycler timer. One of the contact was welded shut, causing the solenoid to open continuously. Probably caused by the fuse blowing repeatedly as customer tried to resolve the fault.
Ordered identical timer. Set to the correct values as per the original and the wiring diagram.
Still, water overflowing from the steam generator despite the solenoid now opening and closing correctly.
So either the water isn't boiling off correctly or the solenoid is letting too much water into the steam vessel. More on this later.
There is one temperature/humidity controller on the outside of the room, which operates two identical heater / steam generator units (with electrical controls inside the proofer, shocking idea really).
Water is fed by 6mm plastic pushfit pipework to each solenoid for each steam generator.
Steam generators are a plastic vessel with three stainless steel plates inside. Each plate connected to each phase controlled by contactor 4K3.
As you've spotted, one phase of 4K3 goes through a current measuring device: 3T1
This is a Carlo MI20 https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/3/3709/1/MI_DS_ENG.pdf
This is linked with a Carlo PUA01 Voltage/Current Relay set to 30% - 4K4 on the diagram.
These V/C relays plug into a relay type base so I can switch the known good side to the side that isn't working. No change in the function of the solenoid or the steam generator - so I have no reason to suspect the relay is at fault. However I don't know how to test 3T1 - the current sensing coil.
My current thinking is along the following lines:
Perhaps the orifice diameter in the original solenoid was metering the water and my new solenoid with a 2.4mm orifice is letting far too much water into the vessel in the 4 second time period.
My second observation, the timer on the working unit, does not seem to be activating the steam generator contactor (4K3) for only 4 seconds, it stays on for ages.
This side produce plenty of steam, so it "appears" to be working correctly.
Each phase pulls 9A roughly.
So machine is a proofer. Raises the humidity and temperature inside a sealed stainless steel room.
What happened is, one of the solenoids failed, short to earth. Was blowing a fuse. Easy, replaced the solenoid.
Solenoid was then running water wide open, flooding the place.
Tested the recycler timer. One of the contact was welded shut, causing the solenoid to open continuously. Probably caused by the fuse blowing repeatedly as customer tried to resolve the fault.
Ordered identical timer. Set to the correct values as per the original and the wiring diagram.
Still, water overflowing from the steam generator despite the solenoid now opening and closing correctly.
So either the water isn't boiling off correctly or the solenoid is letting too much water into the steam vessel. More on this later.
There is one temperature/humidity controller on the outside of the room, which operates two identical heater / steam generator units (with electrical controls inside the proofer, shocking idea really).
Water is fed by 6mm plastic pushfit pipework to each solenoid for each steam generator.
Steam generators are a plastic vessel with three stainless steel plates inside. Each plate connected to each phase controlled by contactor 4K3.
As you've spotted, one phase of 4K3 goes through a current measuring device: 3T1
This is a Carlo MI20 https://www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/3/3709/1/MI_DS_ENG.pdf
This is linked with a Carlo PUA01 Voltage/Current Relay set to 30% - 4K4 on the diagram.
These V/C relays plug into a relay type base so I can switch the known good side to the side that isn't working. No change in the function of the solenoid or the steam generator - so I have no reason to suspect the relay is at fault. However I don't know how to test 3T1 - the current sensing coil.
My current thinking is along the following lines:
Perhaps the orifice diameter in the original solenoid was metering the water and my new solenoid with a 2.4mm orifice is letting far too much water into the vessel in the 4 second time period.
My second observation, the timer on the working unit, does not seem to be activating the steam generator contactor (4K3) for only 4 seconds, it stays on for ages.
This side produce plenty of steam, so it "appears" to be working correctly.
Each phase pulls 9A roughly.
Brad93
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Here is the Datasheet for the PUA01 V/C relay. https://docs.rs-online.com/6f8e/0900766b80f8415e.pdf
daleyd
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The first thing I’d do is get the thing electrically working as it should. Energise the timer relay with the outputs disconnected if needed, and get it pulsing at the correct rate.
Then maybe do a comparison of the flow rates of the solenoid, if you are able to on the old machine, to see if the new one is dosing too much water. Energise it directly (bypass the timer using a jumper from the supply voltage) for a known time and measure how much water comes out. Then do the same with the new one and compare the amount.
Then maybe do a comparison of the flow rates of the solenoid, if you are able to on the old machine, to see if the new one is dosing too much water. Energise it directly (bypass the timer using a jumper from the supply voltage) for a known time and measure how much water comes out. Then do the same with the new one and compare the amount.
Brad93
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I should be able to strip the old solenoid and measure the orifice.
