Time served, experienced,semi skilled & skilled????

[tomsutton529]

Speaking of jobsworths, we just had two guys in a plant near Manchester moving a piece of equipment up one floor. We worked out it'd take two men two days if they had a good run, three if they had problems.
They had problems all right, and every single one of them was down to office wallahs with procedures, clipboards and boxes to tick (e.g. use of a soldering iron IN AN EMPTY CORRIDOR for five minutes? That'll need a hot work permit - two 'managers' a meeting and 3 hours to arrange - to solder three wires to a D-type plug).
So now we'll be billing them for two guys for FIVE days plus overtime and the next time we quote for a job there it'll be jacked right up.

Kelloggs??

I once did a job there that required me to be Confined Space trained, went off did the course and turned up to the job, the first mention of escape procedures, emergency contacts, are the fire brigade aware that im inside an oven, is there a second man etc etc.. They took one look, made a phone call and the job was canceled even though they wanted ME to be certified to do a job They asked for but failed to play there part. I also once got told I need a hot work permit to drill a hole in a fan

 

[Robotstar5]

Lots of factories I've been into over the years, it's a tossup between maintenance and NDT as to which gets the chop when money needs to be saved. I have yet to see an overstaffed, underworked maintenance section - which is why I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

I must have a nose for overstaffed, underworked maintenance jobs then they can't contract out the maintenance as they want 24/7 instant support. They did once try putting maintenance on production work until they were needed for a breakdown, it only lasted a few days as each breakdown entailed isolating machine, getting drawings out etc. instead of the 30 seconds of button pushing it normally took.

 

[JohnRUFC]

Passion is the key, I spent 10years as a machinist making bespoke parts fixing machinery and repairing other people's mistakes because I enjoyed it (I was also working as a production member) and now I'm unemployed and miserable because I don't have the piece of paper saying I can do it. It seems management these days are only interested in the papers!

 

[addjunkie]

Kelloggs??

I once did a job there that required me to be Confined Space trained, went off did the course and turned up to the job, the first mention of escape procedures, emergency contacts, are the fire brigade aware that im inside an oven, is there a second man etc etc.. They took one look, made a phone call and the job was canceled even though they wanted ME to be certified to do a job They asked for but failed to play there part. I also once got told I need a hot work permit to drill a hole in a fan

This could be any multi national company they are all the same, idiots treat a job in the office the same way its treated in a live gas plant. This thread has cheered me up, knowing im not the only person surrounded by idiots at work

 

[Wedg1e]

Passion is the key, I spent 10years as a machinist making bespoke parts fixing machinery and repairing other people's mistakes because I enjoyed it (I was also working as a production member) and now I'm unemployed and miserable because I don't have the piece of paper saying I can do it. It seems management these days are only interested in the papers!

it's all about the paper trail. Even though you can't be put against a wall and shot no matter how badly you f-up, the finger of blame has to be pointed so financial penalties can be awarded. So everyone covers their own back by adding to the paper trail, proving the problem wasn't their doing.
So in essence, it doesn't matter if the job's done properly as long as the paperwork SAYS the job was done properly.

...and if you want a paper trail, we're trying to get UKAS acreditation at the moment. Christ on Chunkolini's rusty bicycle... it's no use dotting the I's unless you can state with 95% certainty what volume of ink is used in the dot. And the T's may only be crossed if you can prove traceability of the cross all the way back to the first guy who whittled a cross from Unobtanium.

 

[Wedg1e]

Kelloggs??

I once did a job there that required me to be Confined Space trained, went off did the course and turned up to the job, the first mention of escape procedures, emergency contacts, are the fire brigade aware that im inside an oven, is there a second man etc etc.. They took one look, made a phone call and the job was canceled even though they wanted ME to be certified to do a job They asked for but failed to play there part. I also once got told I need a hot work permit to drill a hole in a fan

No, pharmaceuticals.
Confined spaces... been there, had to bin the T-shirt afterwards
We used to subcontract a firm called Bales down in Pompey; some of their guys had the positively enviable task of climbing into the sewage tanks on HM warships and jetwashing them clean. The tanks aren't nice rectangular shapes, they're fabricated to fit in around other bits of ship, so it sounds like the Krypton Factor (or perhaps the crapped-on factor ) to get in there in full BA with a jetwash lance and let rip...

 

[tomsutton529]

No, pharmaceuticals.
Confined spaces... been there, had to bin the T-shirt afterwards
We used to subcontract a firm called Bales down in Pompey; some of their guys had the positively enviable task of climbing into the sewage tanks on HM warships and jetwashing them clean. The tanks aren't nice rectangular shapes, they're fabricated to fit in around other bits of ship, so it sounds like the Krypton Factor (or perhaps the crapped-on factor ) to get in there in full BA with a jetwash lance and let rip...

Sounds like fun. I wish I did more confined space work, I quite enjoy being in a dark space with someone at the entrance or the end of some comms just making sure i'm still alive. Not sure how fun i would be finding it when the gas detector goes mental and you know its not good news.

 

[daleyd]

I used to do a lot of confined space stuff in my last job, working with thermal oxidisers and industrial dryers (mainly for printing industry). Can't say I miss it much, though the training was good, getting winched up on that tripod contraption!!

 

[Robotstar5]

Sounds like fun. I wish I did more confined space work, I quite enjoy being in a dark space with someone at the entrance or the end of some comms just making sure i'm still alive. Not sure how fun i would be finding it when the gas detector goes mental and you know its not good news.

As an apprentice in the 70's I got sent down the "tunnel" that held the water cooled cables from the holding furnace to check for water leaks, the downside was, if the holding furnace happened to leak, the tunnel was the lowest point and molten metal would flow into it

Edit: no fancy confined space training or equipment in those days!

 

[slim_boy_fat]

......I quite enjoy being in a dark space with someone at the entrance.....

We're straying into the area of 're-birthing' here.....

 

[addjunkie]

Confined space work does need control though at least once a year there is a safety flash about a confined space incident, usually more than one killed. When the standyby man goes in to rescue his mate.

Years ago, i was involved in a tank rescue when I worked on a Lpg tanker, very difficult manouvering a person out wearing ba sets etc, quite sobering.

 

[tomsutton529]

We're straying into the area of 're-birthing' here.....

There is always one...

 

[tomsutton529]

As an apprentice in the 70's I got sent down the "tunnel" that held the water cooled cables from the holding furnace to check for water leaks, the downside was, if the holding furnace happened to leak, the tunnel was the lowest point and molten metal would flow into it

Edit: no fancy confined space training or equipment in those days!

Sounds like great fun. I bet the molten metal looked awesome in the dark, unless it was flowing round your boots.

 

[Robotstar5]

Sounds like great fun. I bet the molten metal looked awesome in the dark, unless it was flowing round your boots.

The tunnel was less than a metre square so it was a hands & knees job to get through.

 

[daleyd]

Hope you got danger money!!

 

[Robotstar5]

Hope you got danger money!!

Apprentices were expendable in those days!

 

[Kent]

I feel training ought to start in school and practical skills ought to be valued just as much as those of doctors or accountants. Skills were more highly valued in the past so training was a higher priority.

In building the lack of skills and understanding mean I need to repair my roof before the scaffolding has even come down

I wonder if there is any way for us to improve things. Nobody else will.
.

Have you heard of the utc (university technical colleges) my wife was part of the team that set one of the first in the country up.
Kids leave highschool at 14 to complete thier studies and exams with a bias towards thier trade and get treated more like adults.
If only they were about when I was that age -I wasn't what you might call a model pupil
The biggest issue in apprentice training is the instructors are not good enough which is a knock on from the effects of lack of funding and 23 k salarys
I could teach a youngster phenomenonly better than most of those guys could but would also loose any who were not keen on knowing within hours or days
There are some good youngsters round me used to hard work but the red tape means it's too much hassle to take them on
All of this is what you get with having politicians in all parties that have mostly never lived or worked in the real world

 

[Keith 66]

What you should realise about colleges is that they are buisnesses & they get paid for having students ie bums on seats, if you throw any out you lose funding. At my old place we had one moron who had been reported by staff with a "cause for concern notice" wait for it...80 times. It took that long & three years to get him finally excluded.
Other lads who in the workshop were frankly a liability & disruptive had dealines extended time & time again & were spoon fed by the lecturers until they passed.
This is not fair on the skilled & motivated kids.

 

[davidjohnperry]

That was kinda like my plumbing course there were so many ********s yet all of em passed and still the only 3 to get jobs was one where the prison got him an older apprenticeship and paid for his level three the other who was unemployed but worked with his mate who was a plumber and me who worked commercially 3 years I'm the one out of the two who never got nvq due to I did commercial and did not meet the bathroom criteria

 

[toddy]

and today i was told at my new work that i am now a certified pipe welder again
8" 6g C/S passes.... first time doing that in a few years from having a desk job