Tig welding wire

[Chris Stevens]

ESAB isnt chinese..........SIF might be

Esab manufacture in Czech Republic
Lincoln manufacture mild steel MIG wire in Sheffield

SIF are resellers

Can we take it then that SIF filler rod is possibly Chinese and if so of a lower standard than ESAB for instance? Obviously if skilled welders can immediately tell the difference, it would probably be a good idea for beginners or hobby welders to avoid the Chinese made fillers, so as I have never noticed country of origin on packaging, whats the best way to find out?

 

[NickyEng]

Oerlikon are superb Air Liquide Group

 

[TechnicAl]

Can we take it then that SIF filler rod is possibly Chinese and if so of a lower standard than ESAB for instance? Obviously if skilled welders can immediately tell the difference, it would probably be a good idea for beginners or hobby welders to avoid the Chinese made fillers, so as I have never noticed country of origin on packaging, whats the best way to find out?

Its not easy...........if its cheap or MIG wire on white spools its probably chinese

But if its not cheap and on black spools........its not 100% certain its still not chinese

You have to go on names such as Lincoln, Esab, Air Liquide, SAF,..................Oerlikon for the most part but their cheap stuff (Weldline) has been sourced in China but I dont know if it still is.

Even Bohler isnt certain. They produce some but in the UK they used to sell GEDIK which is Turkish.........previous to China it was the cheapest in every sense.

EWM is good..........made in Eastern Europe on the same equipment as used by Lincoln.

Having said all this.........there is some Chinese that can be good.........whether its consistently good is a bigger question

Just before I finished at Lincoln I had had loads of different brands tested (over 70) to incredible levels and the best two were always Lincoln and Esab.

 

[Welderpaul]

Just before I finished at Lincoln I had had loads of different brands tested (over 70) to incredible levels and the best two were always Lincoln and Esab.

I bet the results of those tests were interesting?

 

[TechnicAl]

I bet the results of those tests were interesting?

We had over 20 different tests. One obviously was feeding. We would feed the wire through a torch conduit tied in a knot. It was a really good test. Some wires just couldnt do it.
We developed the test in Sheffield and then every Lincoln plant throughout the world copied it. The previous feed test was done "cold" and it was amazing how many would feed that way but not when an arc was struck.........so welding performance affects feeding (which is obvious really)

I used to show potential customers round the factory and during the tour I would tell them to pick a spool during manufacture. We would then test it against the wire they were using / selling. I had pre warned them and asked them to bring a competitors spool with them. In all those years it only failed once and that was 1.4mm which we had never made before.

 

[Chris Stevens]

I wonder

Its not easy...........if its cheap or MIG wire on white spools its probably chinese

But if its not cheap and on black spools........its not 100% certain its still not chinese

You have to go on names such as Lincoln, Esab, Air Liquide, SAF,..................Oerlikon for the most part but their cheap stuff (Weldline) has been sourced in China but I dont know if it still is.

Even Bohler isnt certain. They produce some but in the UK they used to sell GEDIK which is Turkish.........previous to China it was the cheapest in every sense.

EWM is good..........made in Eastern Europe on the same equipment as used by Lincoln.

Having said all this.........there is some Chinese that can be good.........whether its consistently good is a bigger question

Just before I finished at Lincoln I had had loads of different brands tested (over 70) to incredible levels and the best two were always Lincoln and Esab.

My mistake I thought the OP was asking about TIG filler wires. I have used some cheap Chinese MIG wire, and I would agree its pretty awful. In regard to certified TIG wires, cant see there is much possibility of them varying that much, notwithstanding where they have been made?

 

[Welderpaul]

I used to show potential customers round the factory and during the tour I would tell them to pick a spool during manufacture. We would then test it against the wire they were using / selling. I had pre warned them and asked them to bring a competitors spool with them. In all those years it only failed once and that was 1.4mm which we had never made before.

I bet that got Lincoln a few sales just on the strength of that?

 

[TechnicAl]

I wonder



My mistake I thought the OP was asking about TIG filler wires. I have used some cheap Chinese MIG wire, and I would agree its pretty awful. In regard to certified TIG wires, cant see there is much possibility of them varying that much, notwithstanding where they have been made?

yes we have digressed....it often happens..........but the manufacturers who make MIG also make TIG

I bet that got Lincoln a few sales just on the strength of that?

The factory is the best selling tool you can have.

 

[PTvor]

So is the quality of Tig filler wire as critical as that of arc rods and MIG wire? I get the impression from things said on here that flux cored wire is particularly variable and from some sources, it's unusable.

I've been using SIF MIG wire and I've found it's OK. Their arc rods are also quite good in my experience, which consists of using about a quarter box of 2.5mm and the same of 3.2mm.

I think when I need more MIG wire, I'll go for ESAB or Lincoln. Saving a few quid isn't worth the risk of ending up with 5kg of rubbish.

 

[TechnicAl]

One easy test on MS and SS TIG wire is to wipe it with a tissue. Its easier to cut if its covered in lubricant but lubricants arent conducive to good performance. The cheap ones will leave a heavy black residue.

 

[gordon stephenson]

Just on the colour of the mig spools, EWM use a creamy/white ones, but obviously still excellent wire.

 

[TechnicAl]

Just on the colour of the mig spools, EWM use a creamy/white ones, but obviously still excellent wire.

They have changed then.........those are usually Chinese

 

[TechnicAl]

http://www.euroweldgroup.lt/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Elektrode-Jesenice-consumables-catalogue.pdf

This is the source of EWM consumables.......or was...........its 3 years since I was involved

 

[Richard.]

is the quality of Tig filler wire as critical as that of arc rods and MIG wire?

I think so!
Don't forget with Tig wire your not just adding fill but your adding other elements into the pool to enhance strength, weldability, ductility and in the case of mild steel deoxidising agents.
Best to spend a little more on a brand that has extensive experience in getting the most out of the consumable.
Particularly I can tell the difference bettween good and cheap aluminium wires as soon as they touch the pool.

 

[Chris Stevens]

I think so!
Don't forget with Tig wire your not just adding fill but your adding other elements into the pool to enhance strength, weldability, ductility and in the case of mild steel deoxidising agents.
Best to spend a little more on a brand that has extensive experience in getting the most out of the consumable.
Particularly I can tell the difference bettween good and cheap aluminium wires as soon as they touch the pool.

Maybe an idea to let us know which TIG wires you feel are cheap Chinese and inferior, and which ones are the best then? For a beginner or hobby welder its obviously a good idea to use the best filler materials they can get, and if some are so obviously superior then they are the ones to use I guess?

I have been welding for 25 years or more, and have no idea which TIG consumables are Chinese made, so I guess newcomers have even less chance than me of working this out, so some accurate info on whats good and whats not so good would be very useful.

I use either SIF or ESAB wires, and both seem to work fine for me, but maybe others arent as good, and be very interested to learn what brand names these are?

 

[gordon stephenson]

Hi Al, I don't know what colour the larger spool sof EWM wire are as I only bought few 5Kg ones.

 

[Richard.]

Maybe an idea to let us know which TIG wires you feel are cheap Chinese and inferior, and which ones are the best then? For a beginner or hobby welder its obviously a good idea to use the best filler materials they can get, and if some are so obviously superior then they are the ones to use I guess?

I have been welding for 25 years or more, and have no idea which TIG consumables are Chinese made, so I guess newcomers have even less chance than me of working this out, so some accurate info on whats good and whats not so good would be very useful.

I use either SIF or ESAB wires, and both seem to work fine for me, but maybe others arent as good, and be very interested to learn what brand names these are?

Sif and Esab are probably going to be difficult to tell apart given they are reputable brands. There are some real cheap nasty wires out there that don't under go the same qc as the quality ones which means there costs are lower so our costs are lower. I don't know the brand names Chris as I refuse to use them but you can especially with Alu notice it straight away and I have no doubt you would easily tell also. As you know as soon as you add fill into an ac pool the arc noise and stability changes as the weldability elements are added. With Nasty wires this is either more or less elaborate it's hard to explain. I've had them leave a scaly appearance and even create a horrible fluster to the arc on every dab and I do what I can to keep my filler clean, warm and dry. My job requires me to try out consumables a lot usually good brands which are difficult to tell apart but if a low cost one with no traceability or quality comes into the mix it can be told apart. If you like I have some 4043 which I keep in a small tube in the airing cuboard. I don't know the brand as I was given them to try a while back. I'll send you a couple to try. I cannot bring my self to chuck them as they are so bad it's great to see people's reaction when they try to use them. They are on the worst end of the scale mind but I cannot get them to flow.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Sif and Esab are probably going to be difficult to tell apart given they are reputable brands. There are some real cheap nasty wires out there that don't under go the same qc as the quality ones which means there costs are lower so our costs are lower. I don't know the brand names Chris as I refuse to use them but you can especially with Alu notice it straight away and I have no doubt you would easily tell also. As you know as soon as you add fill into an ac pool the arc noise and stability changes as the weldability elements are added. With Nasty wires this is either more or less elaborate it's hard to explain. I've had them leave a scaly appearance and even create a horrible fluster to the arc on every dab and I do what I can to keep my filler clean, warm and dry. My job requires me to try out consumables a lot usually good brands which are difficult to tell apart but if a low cost one with no traceability or quality comes into the mix it can be told apart. If you like I have some 4043 which I keep in a small tube in the airing cuboard. I don't know the brand as I was given them to try a while back. I'll send you a couple to try. I cannot bring my self to chuck them as they are so bad it's great to see people's reaction when they try to use them. They are on the worst end of the scale mind but I cannot get them to flow.

The TIG version of cheap and nasty MIG wire then? Never something I have ever used, or would want to try. Guess they are to be found on Ebay, and may well trip up beginner welders wanting to save money? Cheap Chinese MIG wire I used once or twice was truly awful, and again is something to be avoided by beginners.

 

[Richard.]

Tbh I don't know where these come from. Ebay, China , mr tumbles house no idea. Someone bought them to me because they were struggling with Alu and didn't know if it was them or the filler. I couldn't get anything nice out of them at all and I swapped him for a handful of mine and kept the tube of this stuff for a laugh. I'll never through it away as its my ammunition to use in a "weld off". Ha ha.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Ok.............I guess crap TIG filler is though a lot less common than **** MIG wire, so not likely to be much of a problem at all as long as people stick with name brands from reputable sellers?