TIG welding, can I do it????

[dutchman]

Malcolm, I read your post about brazing aluminium again and you say there the strength is good. Sorry for my incomplete understanding at first. This is not due to my being Dutch, but I have a reading handicap, doesn’t make life much easier. So, let me rephrase the question; do you think brazing is strong enough for building a recumbent bike?
About the Glock, that was due to my crappy English. I meant clog. I am glad that wearing a glock is wearing a gun, not something silly like lipstick or a miniskirt!
OK, now the MIG welding of aluminium. I read that it’s rather difficult and doesn’t give the welder the desired control over the process. Malcolm’s efforts (with the brass heat absorber) look quite nice though. However, MIG welding and absorbing the heat from aluminium tubing will probably be difficult. Especially for a rookie, or am I wrong?

About the worms, what on earth is the meaning behind it!?!

 

[malcolm]

I wouldn't trust the easyweld/durafix aluminium brazing on anything structural. It's too difficult to get a consistant join with the stuff.

I'd do a bike with TIG. Aluminium TIG welding is a whole lot easier than aluminium MIG welding. Here's my effort with an AC TIG welder (clicks to a bigger one). For me maybe 8 - 15 hours practice on TIG over a period of 3 months (kept giving up - that's a problem with TIG).



For steel MIG is easier but not so neat.

"Can of worms" means lots of trouble (open a can of worms and they all wriggle out - can be the same as ssaying something contraversial on a forum).

 

[matt1978]

Hi Matt,
I’ve received the email from my fellow (glock wearing) countryman. He also included a nice brochure. I don’t know the people from Haprotech personally, but I sure know where they are located. Only a 5 minute walk from my former office at the Corus site! I even stood in front of their window, gazing at their machines a while ago.

Still haven’t made up my mind about MIG or TIG. I really like the H180, but the basic version doesn’t have HF start. Is HF start worth investing the extra money?
Another option would be to buy a MIG welder and use brazing for connecting aluminium. Solder manufacturers claim strengths of upto 370Mpa! Does anyone know the strength of an average aluminium weld?

Malcolm, thanks for giving me good hope on learning TIG welding. Did you have to put in many hours to learn it? 20, 50, 150??
I saw you also did some aluminium brazing. Are you satisfied with the strength?

BTW, what is the meaning of this symbol??

Hi Dutchman,

Glad that Michael got in contact with you. The H180c is the one it sounds like you have looked at, the H180t is the one with HF, but they are both still DC only and they wouldn't be able to do Aluminium. For that you would need the HT180 AC/DC (Which has HF).

If your just learning tig welding it would be easier on you to go for the HF start.

Why not arrange to go to the facilty at Haprotech and ask them to demontrate all 3 welders to you, then you can make up your mind. Good luck!

 

[MrFluffy]

do you think brazing is strong enough for building a recumbent bike?

Just to chip in here, I think your thinking about brazing in the wrong way, normally there is some mechanical fixture or lugs holding the tubes in place, and the braze is just used as a glue to hold all the tubes into the fixtures. You could probably loctite the tubes into the fixings and get the same mechanical strength.

 

[Drains]

I'll chip in too to suggest that you build a bike from an appropriate mild steel tubing (a Reynolds tube - 531 is versatile and can be cold bent, unlike 753), rather than aluminium. It will be much more straightforward, uses cheaper (dc) kit, and you won't have to learn the difficult art of AC tig

 

[matt1978]

Who are your scottish distributors Matt?

Newarc in Aberdeen & Mathiesons just outside Kilmarnock.

 

[Stuggi]

I'll chip in too to suggest that you build a bike from an appropriate mild steel tubing (a Reynolds tube - 531 is versatile and can be cold bent, unlike 753), rather than aluminium. It will be much more straightforward, uses cheaper (dc) kit, and you won't have to learn the difficult art of AC tig

But if one wants to learn TIG it's an excellent opportunity.

And it's not impossible, one of my friends is a car mechanic, and he has taught himself how to TIG-weld, and his welds look really neat. Dunno how long it took him though, but maybe 3 years to get to the point where he's now (fabricating custom exhausts)...

 

[zardoz]

Hi dutchman. Can you Oxy Acetylene (gas) weld, or have you had any experience doing it ? Because if yes, then you will find TIG a lot easier. It is the same basic process of keeping moving a weld pool of molten metal, hot enough to melt your rod but not hot enough to burn though and leave a hole. The way is the same except you use an electric arc instead of a naked flame.

 

[dutchman]

Thanks for chipping in guys, all advice is welcome!
Reading the post by Tensaiteki, http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=15870 one would think brazing is a decent method for connecting aluminium. It is also used on high-end bikes. Therefore I haven’t completely rejected the idea of aluminium brazing, but I do have to figure out a way to get a consistent join though.
Good advice on the Reynolds 531! Did not know it could be cold bend, will certainly look into that.

@Zardoz,
I have done some acetylene cutting on heavy plating (approx.1inch), but no gas welding.

The way things look now, I think I’ll go for DC MIG.
Hope I won’t be opening a can of worms here.

 

[Drains]

Dutchman, have a look at this page.

It basically says that 531 is no longer made as it cannot be tigged, but has been replaced by 525, which can.

 

[baweld]

hello all, im a lorch agent based in manchester england . anything i can do to help and how do i let this site know of the things i can do to help you all . great site by the way .
gys are in fact made in france and not china . the owner makes everything in house .
His factory is awesome but yes you are right about quality but hey you gets what you pays .
We can locate gys through specialised welding

 

[shenion]

Al brazing will work but it takes practice. You can do a good looking bead that will just snap off as the oxidation impedes the fusion. You need to stir the weld pool to break through the oxidation.

The brazing rods weld pool flows like water. The second-generation rods are supposed to work better, but still best working on level surfaces.

Have brazed chain-saw engines, mufflers and repaired some castings. Works well with MAPP torch, propane is marginal. Butane may work also.

I would go for TIG. Takes practice, but it can do just about anything (AC/DC TIG.)


It can be done with MIG, but needs more than a hobby machine to do good welds.

 

[zardoz]

hello all, im a lorch agent based in manchester england . anything i can do to help and how do i let this site know of the things i can do to help you all . great site by the way .
gys are in fact made in france and not china . the owner makes everything in house .
His factory is awesome but yes you are right about quality but hey you gets what you pays .
We can locate gys through specialised welding

Never heard of them till now, but often any small manufacturer will make a good product just because quality control is easier to oversee.
http://www.gys.fr/spip.php?page=categories&cat_id=18&lang=en

A great website as well, where you can get high quality detailed images of products as well as specs.

 

[dutchman]

Hi All,

Have done a little more research, and you guys were right (off course) TIG is the welding method to use on a bike. I also discovered a very interesting brazing technique for connecting frame tubes called fillet brazing.
Hope I haven’t annoyed you too much with my amateuristic questions.

Regards, Dutchman

 

[baweld]

matt give us a bell , ive sold that S3 pulsed mig we demo ,d .
didnt know you was on here . good site isnt it ? ..

 

[baweld]

trouble is you cant weld thin aluminium in short arc mode and 5356 takes more current to blow than 4043 , but you have feed probs with this wire . to weld aluminium proff without a TIG requires a pulsed synergic .
ive just demod the butters amt 210 pulsed mig today 240volt. i was impressed .... not on a par with the lorch sets but but a list of £1900 . the 160 is less .
top job required and money ok i would recommend the lorch any day. the arc is very soft

 

[matt1978]

matt give us a bell , ive sold that S3 pulsed mig we demo ,d .
didnt know you was on here . good site isnt it ? ..

Alright mate, will call you tommorra ref the Saprom.

Yeah this is a good site, I only been on a month or so, but its good.