TIG welder on a budget - advice please

[TechnicAl]

Thought about that - I reckon a good scheme would be to pre-sell them on the forum, then once I had the deposits order maybe 20 of them. They ought to sell for just under the going rates on eBay, and I could put people off the scent of my money making by constantly going on about how much I'm putting myself out for organising it all. Reckon it could work?

(ref another forum - such a project would get some stick round here).

Are they CE Marked?. If not, you could be fined up to £2000 each plus costs. The legal responsibility is the Importers.

 

[weldequip]

Thats 40 grand on 20 machines, great! That should put em off!
How long before Lincoln set up manufacturing in China I wonder? Who'll be first; as soon as one of the big players move there they'll all be in & that will be the death of manufacturing in America, Italy & Sweden.

 

[TechnicAl]

Thats 40 grand on 20 machines, great! That should put em off!
How long before Lincoln set up manufacturing in China I wonder? Who'll be first; as soon as one of the big players move there they'll all be in & that will be the death of manufacturing in America, Italy & Sweden.

They already are (and Esab) and by the time they have built a quality machine with all the tests and shipped it to Europe.
Guess what.....its the same price as one made here

The Chinese market is massive and they want good stuff so they are selling the "other stuff" over here.

The only MIG wire manufacturing unit in the UK is exporting MIG wire to China.....crazy world

 

[malcolm]

Isn't CE marking self certified? I'm surprised a requirement for CE marking isn't covered in the various trade agreements. I'm not planning to import any welders. Perfectly happy with the ones I've already got, and would generally encorage people to buy nice high quality UK made ones anyway.

The real advantage of UK made welders is roughly 75% of the money you spend ultimately ends up with the government as tax, which is roughly twice the percentage with imports. If everyone bought UK made stuff then there ought to be scope for tax cuts come the replacement government. Maybe.

 

[weldequip]

Nice to hear you encouraging people to buy British Malcolm (my new Pioneer telly was made here by the way, even though it's a Jap company) but where do you get 75% tax take from? The figure I have read is that every £1 you earn 52% is tax (taking into account Vat etc.etc.); Mr.Prudent Brown eh, where's it all gone?! - I still had to wait 4 hours at casualty earlier this year!!

 

[TechnicAl]

Isn't CE marking self certified? I'm surprised a requirement for CE marking isn't covered in the various trade agreements. I'm not planning to import any welders. Perfectly happy with the ones I've already got, and would generally encorage people to buy nice high quality UK made ones anyway.

The real advantage of UK made welders is roughly 75% of the money you spend ultimately ends up with the government as tax, which is roughly twice the percentage with imports. If everyone bought UK made stuff then there ought to be scope for tax cuts come the replacement government. Maybe.

You can self certify or use an outside Inspector such as TuV. Most quality brands will go over the top in ensuring the CE demands are met. They dont want a disaster to sour the brand.

There are machines on the UK market that are CE marked but clearly dont meet the regulations. Problem is, there is no Police until someone gets injured.

 

[malcolm]

You can self certify or use an outside Inspector such as TuV.

I have a friend selling his own design cycle lights who CE marked them himself (having done all the relevant tests), but it makes sense is there is an external body to help the bigger manufacturers. As a regulation it makes a lot of sense not adding unnecessary extra costs onto the small manufacturers. US takes it further - Cars in the US are self cert!

For tax calculations: Buy a welder and pay 17.5% VAT. The guys that make it buy the parts VAT free, but most of the rest goes into sales and manufacturing salaries. Those salaries are taxed 12% national insurance for the company at source, then a further 9% national insurance from the employee. Add to that 20% income tax for the manufacturing employees (40% for the sales people if they are lucky) and it starts to stack up. Then add to that what these guys do with their money - they spend it on stuff which is taxed in much the same way. The money keeps on rattling around in the UK until the government (or the banks) have all of it. If the parts are UK sourced then it should be possible to prove that more than 110% goes into taxes.

Let the money escape from the UK and you've got 17.5% VAT a good proportion of whatever the importer takes home (or a small proportion of the combined importer and accountant earnings) which is a lot less than would have gone to the government on a UK buy.

My theory is if everyone bought from the UK then the govermnent might stop hassling me for so much tax, though more likely they'd find more ways to waste it.

I thought the NHS was funded entirely through cigarette taxes. If you aren't getting seen quickly enough it's probably my fault for not smoking enough. I shall go out for another cigarette to make amends.

 

[lexi]

They already are (and Esab) and by the time they have built a quality machine with all the tests and shipped it to Europe.
Guess what.....its the same price as one made here

The Chinese market is massive and they want good stuff so they are selling the "other stuff" over here.

The only MIG wire manufacturing unit in the UK is exporting MIG wire to China.....crazy world

To be fair Al. You wouldn`t expect them to use the hobby machines to build their infrastructure when they need pro machines. I do see everyones point and every industry is in the same boat. I had friends and relatives in Clyde Shipbuilding but when you look at the Daewoo and Hyundai yards what can you do? World markets my friends. It all balances out in the end. I am competing with Polish Tradesman who have come over here to work.
That has hit on the head a lot of apprenticeships for our own boys but once these Poles take on mortgages etc they wont be able to work cheap no more so it will balance out. If these machines are as bad as you say they are Steve then you have nowt to worry about. If they are good then I`m sure you will jump on the bandwagon like any good businessman would.
I`d like a look in that Pioneer set of yours to see where all the stuff was made Steve. It`s all a bit like voting really. Do you vote for the party that will do best for the country or do best for you?
Alex

 

[weldequip]

I've never voted Alex, and never intend to do. Don't give me "well if you don't vote it's a waisted vote bo**ox either! cause as far as I'm concerned they are all the same:- SELF First, PARTY Second, COUNTRY third!
As regards the Polish workers you are having to compete with for work, they have NO intention of taking out a UK mortgage, instead sending money back to Poland & eventually moving back there to live like a relative King on their Western wage earnings (not that you can blame them of course).
Market economies prevail but the future for the West is very bleak I'm afraid; the average wage in China is 60US cents & hour, compared with about $25 an hour in the West! You don't have to be a genius to work out the end result!
China will challenge America as the world's superpower within the next decade(they knocked Britain off the number 4 spot this year & Germany will go next year) & then the prevurbiable WILL hit the fan!!
On a more positive note, tomorrow is Thursday & then Friday - Wa-hey!!

 

[lexi]

Never voted either Steve. You could be right on the Poles as a lot of Irish people have went back and built nice houses back home after working in UK but then again we went over and worked in Germany too. Every Industrial giant is looking for poorer countries to make their stuff in. That`s why a lot of them are in UK sadly.
Alex

 

[malcolm]

On a really positive note my meetings on Thursday and Friday have just been cancelled. Me is cheery now.

The Poles do take out mortgages, but (on average) tend to fill their houses with more people than might be normal in the UK. I've been to Poland and they made me feel really welcome. I'm all for Poles coming over to the UK, as they do some great parties. Just a shame they get paid crap.

I'm sure the Chinese are lovely folk too, though I've only met a few through academic circles. Made it to Korea once (the old China) and while the culture is different the people are still wonderful. Mind you, the Iranian I shared cigarette breaks with didn't seem at all evil either. He was quite keen to talk about the family he has at home. I really hope we don't start bombing the **** out of those guys.

It's an international thing these days. The government will probably do it's best to keep the country going, but exchange rates will make Chinese products look good for a while.

The real problem is companies that sell disposable stuff. Re-use and maintain everything has to be the message, though that's not a message that pays the taxes.

 

[Devonian]

Well, it's been a day or three since my original posting.
As much as I would like a TIG welder for some of my welding, I just can't justify the spend.

So, after reading several posts on this fine forum about Argoshield Light, I've 'invested' in a BOC contract and a size Y bottle & gas for my Clarke 150 amp MIG welder.
Also got a suitable bottle regulator & flow meter off good ol' eblag for not much money!
I'm surprised at how much gas flow 10 litres per minute actually is!

The difference in laying down a nice bead of weld is unbelievable.
Whereas I used to struggle with CO2 on vehicle body panels etc, I can now use lower amps & wire feed to get a nice solid weld bead, in fact it's only now that I can succesfully use the lowest amp settings on my MIG unit!
No more blowing holes and pigeon poop for me!

Nigel.