Tig Welder for Alloy Wheel repairs advice

[anto44]

And where does that particular nugget of info come from?

By implication then, any welding to anything else on the vehicle removes it's type approval too?

I guess an immediate application of this new rule will at least create a lot more room on the roads . . .

Welding to other parts of a car eg replacing cills is an approved repair by the manufacturer, they supply replacement parts and will provide guidelines for such repairs. No manufacturer approves weld repairs to alloy wheels.

 

[premmington]

Welding to other parts of a car eg replacing cills is an approved repair by the manufacturer, they supply replacement parts and will provide guidelines for such repairs. No manufacturer approves weld repairs to alloy wheels.

It's unreal how many BMW wheels are welded up (mostly rear axle ones)

 

[tom2207]

This is the thing that everyone thinks.
The reality is, WHO is going to sue someone with less than a few million in assets? Complete waste of time. Rule no.1 of lawyering is, you sue the guys with lots of money.

On the other hand, if you do something very silly that leads to someone being killed, then the HSE will chase you and your company and assets no matter how big or little.

Ultimately, do a job right, it won't come back on you and you won't get sued. Simple.

ever been in an alloy wheel manufacturing plant ?

 

[anto44]

It's unreal how many BMW wheels are welded up (mostly rear axle ones)

Bmw are the ones I see welded the most. Low profile tyres, really thin rims and bad roads doesn't seem to be a good combination

 

[tom2207]

Bmw are the ones I see welded the most. Low profile tyres, really thin rims and bad roads doesn't seem to be a good combination

I see lots of range rover 22 inch ones , heavy car and low profiles . Its interesting that even with big cracks the tires dont leak down that quickly though , more often its the bead retaining lip that seems to fall off ,, not what you would expect .

 

[anto44]

I see lots of range rover 22 inch ones , heavy car and low profiles . Its interesting that even with big cracks the tires dont leak down that quickly though , more often its the bead retaining lip that seems to fall off ,, not what you would expect .

I've seen lots of cracked rims and rims which were welded and cracked again but I've never seen one suffer a major failure, they've just deflated

 

[tom2207]

I've seen lots of cracked rims and rims which were welded and cracked again but I've never seen one suffer a major failure, they've just deflated

as long as they dont deflate at 80mph on a wet night ,,, rapidly.

 

[premmington]

I've seen lots of cracked rims and rims which were welded and cracked again but I've never seen one suffer a major failure, they've just deflated

Must admit I never seen one have major failure after being welded - just leaking air.

 

[anto44]

Must admit I never seen one have major failure after being welded - just leaking air.

I've worked for dealers for a few different brands and I've never heard of a case of a major failure. I recently said no to repairing a bmw x5 wheel because it was cracked on the outside lip around 3 of the spokes and they just brought it to someone else who repaired it. I'll stay repairing the ones I'm comfortable with repairing aware of the potential risks of it going wrong.

 

[tom2207]

its amazing what folk will do , we used to get a range rover in with 22 alloys on it , aftermarket that the owner had bought cheap , they were fitted with the wrong nuts to be able to get the threads to catch , and each nut only had four or five threads catching ,,, they simply refused to do anything about it . The wheels couldnt be torqued as the threads would have stripped and they signed a disclaimer every time it left the workshop , maybe welded alloys are not the worst thing out there ,,,,, how bad was it ,,, I wouldnt ever take it for a test drive when work had been done.

 

[anto44]

I just removed these two tyres this afternoon from a car with 2 baby seats in the back.

 

[Munkul]

ever been in an alloy wheel manufacturing plant ?

No, but I'm well aware of the metallurgy of welding aluminum alloy, at least weldable alloys.

To put it simply, welding it removes the temper. It makes it soft in that area.

Making it soft, means it makes the repair area ductile, meaning low chance of brittle failure. Meaning the chance of catestropic accidents is very low.

Meanwhile, if you cock it up and weld an unweldable alloy, or use incorrect filler, the shrinkage stresses in the alloy mean that it either cracks immediately, or as it's cooling. So the crack fails open, but it will generally fail before you even get the tyre back on. So, it's a problem that generally fails safe.

(To be honest, I've never seen or heard of this problem on wheels anyway - it's more a problem with gearbox or sump castings. But not impossible to imagine happening on some wheels)

The number of successfully welded alloy wheels on the road, some of which are welded extremely poorly, and the lack of incidents involving wheel repairs would back up my hypotheses here.

 

[bricol]

Welding to other parts of a car eg replacing cills is an approved repair by the manufacturer, they supply replacement parts and will provide guidelines for such repairs. No manufacturer approves weld repairs to alloy wheels.

And how many MOT passing welded repairs do you think meet manufacturers original spec?

 

[anto44]

And how many MOT passing welded repairs do you think meet manufacturers original spec?

If the mot testers are doing their job correctly then all the ones passing should be up to standard

 

[bricol]

I've never seen a new item of a failed welded wheel being the cause of an accident or court action news report.

I have seen it for bald tyres, defective brakes, etc.

So despite all the theorists, I don't think there have been many instances of such a failure.

And a multi national motorsports company would not be using welded repaired rims where results equals money if they weren't suitable for the task. And I would suggest a few really stages test a wheel much more then road use.

I would, and have, happily have weld repairs to wheels - they weren't taken to a bloke in a garage with a third hand welder.

 

[tom2207]

No, but I'm well aware of the metallurgy of welding aluminum alloy, at least weldable alloys.

To put it simply, welding it removes the temper. It makes it soft in that area.

Making it soft, means it makes the repair area ductile, meaning low chance of brittle failure. Meaning the chance of catestropic accidents is very low.

Meanwhile, if you cock it up and weld an unweldable alloy, or use incorrect filler, the shrinkage stresses in the alloy mean that it either cracks immediately, or as it's cooling. So the crack fails open, but it will generally fail before you even get the tyre back on. So, it's a problem that generally fails safe.

(To be honest, I've never seen or heard of this problem on wheels anyway - it's more a problem with gearbox or sump castings. But not impossible to imagine happening on some wheels)

The number of successfully welded alloy wheels on the road, some of which are welded extremely poorly, and the lack of incidents involving wheel repairs would back up my hypotheses here.

They dont normally let folk in for a wander about , but the factory here was having issues and the company I was with went n to do some investigating , theres a lot more to wheels than most folk think , and the heat treating process has to be seen . Im not going into it more than that. Alloy wheel cracking is a lot more common on big wheels and low profile tires as you can imagine the shock absorbing aspect of the tire vanishes if ultra low profile tires are fitted and the roads are bad , some of the cracks you see are crazy , six inches long isnt uncommon running round the bead. Plenty of folk will weld them but as I said , I will pass on it , theres a Polish guy up the road from me whos doing them at prices I couldnt match even if I wanted to , hes welcome to them. Same company used to do cylinder heads , that was interesting too .

 

[Robotstar5]

If the mot testers are doing their job correctly then all the ones passing should be up to standard

A friends wife was a bit miffed today, she put her car into the MOT place she's been using for years and they've always passed it numberplates with incorrect spacing, today VOSA inspectors paid a surprise visit so the tester had to fail her car

 

[anto44]

Those inspectors are like the opposite of health and safety, the testers remove their eye protection when they're around

 

[tom2207]

Right ,,, so back to the original question
what features and what welder to do the job as originally asked
AcDc Tig
220v
and worth the money ,,,, Id be thinking dedicated tig rather than a multifunction ,
Not CE ( Chinese Export ) So a decent warranty that will be of use.
I dont have anything that matches that spec, What springs to mind ?

 

[Munkul]

Right ,,, so back to the original question
what features and what welder to do the job as originally asked
AcDc Tig
220v
and worth the money ,,,, Id be thinking dedicated tig rather than a multifunction ,
Not CE ( Chinese Export ) So a decent warranty that will be of use.
I dont have anything that matches that spec, What springs to mind ?

Parweld or jasic, probably. Not the cheapest, not super high end, but good enough to use in a working environment.