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rusty69bus
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HIGHWELD TIG AC/DC-200P/MMA combination AC/DC TIG 200 AMP with 60% OD (cyclic duration) The new HIGHWELD combination professional combines TIG and electrodes hand welding with coat electrodes in only one equipment. All the same whether evenly times a welding seam with an electrode can weld this equipment in a so far unequalled quality in thick steel or a fine seam at aluminum framework of the motorcycle all this. The equipment combines absolute high technology on smallest area. By the enormously high efficiency of the MOS FET of inverter of 93 % related to the assigned quantity of electricity the equipment works very energy-saving. MOS FET IGBT inverters are smaller and easier than every other well-known technology. The sweat is river very many more stably and more akkurater and also easier to adjust than with all other technologies. The cyclic duration (OD) of 60% with all functions can be achieved only by few other devices. The equipment has a highly effective protection against foreignmagnetic waves. With up to 200 AMP TIG AC/DC power cannot be welded all metals inclusive aluminum in one with MIG or other sweat procedure quality which can be reached. By the pulses function is up-mixed the weld pool and brought very much more energy into the welding seam, without producing more heat at the same time. Thus the environment remains cool and it develops less welding delay. Also lacquer and plastic in the proximity of the welding seam are thereby preserved. Also a very fine Schuppung of the welding seam is steered thereby. For it pulses frequency a pulse width of 10-90% and pulse heights 20-90%, adjustable from 0,5 to 300 cycles per second, provide otherwise only with very expensive devices to find are. Those gas-before-flow function of 0-1 sec. places reliably that already a protecting gas bell against the workpiece rests before the equipment ignites and with welding begins. Additionally the equipment has adjustable gas flows time between 1 and 10 sec. that the welding seam cools and thus prevented embrittlement. An adjustable down slope function of 0-5 sec., makes an end for the welding seam possible without beginning and without burr. With a switch button can press and releases - welding/button presses again - end of the welding procedure) to be changed from the mode 2-Takt (head to imprint and hold - welding/button releases - end of the welding procedure) into the mode 4-Takt. The equipment starts in the TIG mode contactlessly with HF (high frequency). 200 AMP MMA (electrodes welding set) with 60% OD (cyclic duration) At the same time a welding electric rectifier with constant river, which was conceived for the elbow welding with coat electrodes, in the equipment is integrated. This is steered also by the MOS FET IGBT inverter control system. The special characteristics of this control system, like high speed and precision of the control lend excellent quality to the equipment when welding with each kind of coat electrodes. By the function Hot start is increased in such a way electronically the energizing voltage when starting that also problematic electrodes ignite. After the ignition the equipment shifts back then to normal tension. Anti-stick switches the river off automatically immediately, if the electrode sticks. Thus burning the electrode is prevented. ARC FORCE regulates itself the achievement if the distance of the electrode to the schweissstueck changed. Thus it is possible for untrained welders to obtain good results since electronics adjusts grosser errors. The equipment fulfills all prescribed standards and guidelines such as CE, ROHS, WEE of old devices disposal Technical details input voltage: 220V±10% 1PHASE pulse height adjustmenting: 20-90% OD cyclic duration with 200 A: 60% pulse width adjustment: 0.1-0.9 welding current TIG AC: 20-200 A pulse frequency adjustment: 0.5-300 cycles per second gas Vorstroemzeit: 0-1 sec. electrodes diameter TIG: 1,6/2.4/3.2 mm gas wake time: 1-10 sec. ignition: High frequency (HF) welding current TIG DC: 10-200 A electrodes diameter MMA: 1,6 - 4 mm welding current electrode: 10-200 A net weight: 23 kg scope of supply: Everything which in the pictures to be seen is. Dimensions: 493 x 330 x 320 mm
matt1978
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Yeah its a decent price, but obviously Chinese. You wouldn't get 200 Amps output on a 13amp supply either, its most probably 20 odd amps required.
Never heard of that particular name/model but it looks quite simerla to the Javac one that Parweld and Butters are selling.
Never heard of that particular name/model but it looks quite simerla to the Javac one that Parweld and Butters are selling.
irondarren
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My IFL unit runs on a 32amp socket same as the MIG unit. I just looked at the butters AC/DC 200amp unit maximum input is rate at 37amps, fuse 32amps, so really to get full potential out of it you need to run it on a 32amps socket. Max power you are going to get out on a 13amp plug without the fuses blowing every 5 mins is about 140/150 amps
irondarren
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With the chinese made ones its the long term reliability, which is the worry. What happends if it does break down etc etc. Very different scenario for DIY users as it is pro user. For the pro user any machinery much be 100% reliable with 100% service backup because if it fails you can no longer use the machine to earn a living, for the DIY user its just dam frustrating what you had planned for the weekend will have to wait. Having said that at the price you paid you if it fails after 18 months its cheap enough to replace
EVguru
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I've had a peek inside one (not mine) a while ago.
The control boards are mostly analogue and use a standard switched mode power suply chip. There are no uProcessors so they should be servicable by someone with a good electronics knowledge.
The actual power stage looks fairly well overbuilt in terms of device ratings and they appear to have Toshiba part numbers.
If the basic design is sound, then the reliability issues are likely to be poor assembly (loose connections etc.), aging of components like electrolytic capacitors (which always have a finite lifespan) and dirt/moisture ingress. I don't know how good the conformal coating on the boards is and many people never service equipment used in harsh environments. We had a UPS shut down at work due to overtemp a while back. The vents were completely blocked with dust!
I need to make covers for both the TIG and the recently acquired Plasma to keep the general workshop detritus out when they're not being used. Be aware of where your grinding sparks are ending up!
R-Tech welding are selling Chinese inverter based equipment (looks like 'Free' to me) with a 2 year warantee and also say they service/repair inverter equipment.
irondarren
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Any quality AC/DC Tig unit is £1800 plus, there are butters ones for less. But good quality AC/DC units with square wave are about £2500, which is a little expensive for the occasional use. When i bought my inverter fusion unit which is DC only the whole set up inc torch etc but not pedal cost me around £850, i considered that to be good value for money for a 200amp DC HF pulse Tig. When i looked at AC/DC tig units the cost was to high, not that i objected to spending £2000, but the extra £1100 would be only to work on aluminium, as I get asked to repair a bit of ally about 5 times a year. It would have taken me for ever to get the extra money back. the obvious answer was to spend less and say when asked sorry i can repair it. But at the sort of price those units sell for it possibly worth the shot.
Only thing that worries me is there is a vast difference between, between welding machines. Those that have started life with an SIP and moved up to a portamig, think they are in a whole new world, ive seen it described as a welding utopia somewhere on the forum. Anyone that has use the old air cooled transformer type welders and then taken the plunge and got a nice MMA inverter, for them again its a totaly different experience constant welds every time. I have an EWM pico 140 MMA/scratch Tig inverter about 6 years old lovely machine runs a welding rod nice every time never misses a beat, if its a crap arc weld its my fault. I also have a IFL 200amp machine, i swear if you run out of arc rods you could use a 6inch nail, welds with any rod you like, low hydrogen no problem. One of the major differences i have noticed is the IFL unit doesn't give a hoot, if the input voltage drops, the arc still remains 100% constant (one place i use the machine occasional on site is very subject to input voltage changes) and the machine seems to be capable of balancing the voltage change out. The welding arc is better than the old EWM even though the EWM is excellent, the fusion unit out performs it every time. Im sure the likes of Matt would try and tell me that a lorch inverter welds even smoother and better and more constant the my IFL unit, and if he did say so i wouldn't dis-believe him, years of experience has led me to know you get what you pay for in terms of tools (there is the odd rogue out there with over priced equipment that doesn't perform the same as the rest of the machinery in the same price bracket)
Anyway to cut it short and not ramble on for another 20 mins, If you had the chineses machine set up in front of you next to an IFL machine or a Lorch, did a 20 min bash on each. Would you still part with £500 or wait a few months and save a few quid and buy the IFL or the lorch?
Only thing that worries me is there is a vast difference between, between welding machines. Those that have started life with an SIP and moved up to a portamig, think they are in a whole new world, ive seen it described as a welding utopia somewhere on the forum. Anyone that has use the old air cooled transformer type welders and then taken the plunge and got a nice MMA inverter, for them again its a totaly different experience constant welds every time. I have an EWM pico 140 MMA/scratch Tig inverter about 6 years old lovely machine runs a welding rod nice every time never misses a beat, if its a crap arc weld its my fault. I also have a IFL 200amp machine, i swear if you run out of arc rods you could use a 6inch nail, welds with any rod you like, low hydrogen no problem. One of the major differences i have noticed is the IFL unit doesn't give a hoot, if the input voltage drops, the arc still remains 100% constant (one place i use the machine occasional on site is very subject to input voltage changes) and the machine seems to be capable of balancing the voltage change out. The welding arc is better than the old EWM even though the EWM is excellent, the fusion unit out performs it every time. Im sure the likes of Matt would try and tell me that a lorch inverter welds even smoother and better and more constant the my IFL unit, and if he did say so i wouldn't dis-believe him, years of experience has led me to know you get what you pay for in terms of tools (there is the odd rogue out there with over priced equipment that doesn't perform the same as the rest of the machinery in the same price bracket)
Anyway to cut it short and not ramble on for another 20 mins, If you had the chineses machine set up in front of you next to an IFL machine or a Lorch, did a 20 min bash on each. Would you still part with £500 or wait a few months and save a few quid and buy the IFL or the lorch?
EVguru
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The Butters TIGs and the equivilent Chinese types are squarewave, it's inherant in the technology.
When an item is produced in sufficient numbers you can roughly estimate the production cost by it's weight. Traditional low frequency transformer based welders have a lot of material in them. On that basis an inverter welder should cost less, not more. However the welding market is small enough that high prices have been maintained. The Chinese are disrupting that.
Providing the control feedback loops are stable (Poles and Zeros in the right places) one inverter welding power supply is going to be pretty much indistinguishable from another of the same ratings.
, mine is a Free (tig 160 pulse) coming from germany and has a 2 year warranty so for £165 you cant complainirondarren
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Im reasonably sure the R-tech ones are chinese made but R-tech give service back up on them. The free one is undoubtbly from china, having them sent from Germany i believe is a ploy to make people think they are actually German. The truth is i believe they are imported from china to Germany and then sold on, but at the price does it matter where it comes from.
Luke
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Oooo someone else with some control/closed loop background! i'm a fourth year systems and control student.
Towing and trailers
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When I started and wanted a Tig about 10 years ago I went to a large engineering show at the NEC and spent a full day stating what I wanted at every stand and got offered a load of **** then last off I came across a stand for MESSER as it was then these machines were made by a Company in germany called EWM not very well known and not to cheap especially at the time I spent in excess of £3000 their machines smaller cheaper are cheaper now.
They were the only people demoing machines I had not touched a TIG for over 2 years and only done a few welds with one.
I spoke to the lad demoing the machines he is now the sole importer for the UK.
told him what I wanted he came out with the line I had heard all day we have exactly what you are after and I said so has every one else he pointed to it yes it looked more impresive than any of the others I asked the Question How do you drive it he went through the dials as it was an early inverter with more dials than an areoplane cockpit. then he told me to have a go put 2 pieces of aluminium down with an open corner and told me to run along them I was reluctant as I had not done it in a long time and had not had the practice. when I had done I bought the set as it looked like some one had bent one piece then pit some lines in it to make it look like a weld. I now have 5 machines by EWM and they have not been a problem except when we had to straighten one with a sledge hammer after a scrap metal skip squashed it but it still worked with a new Regulator and some serious straightening. the new version is the Triton 220 AC/DC powersinus go tohttp://www1.ewm.de/ do not believe the specification as my sets have all done twice as well. I have never seen a single phase tig put an 8x4 8mm sheet in a bulker floor without stoping on a 13 amp fuse untill I brought that set the touch was seriously deformed as it had beenover heated slightly I was could not hold it with a welding gauntlet on.
tell him to save up and never regret the money he has spent.
The cross I have put on the introduction thread I have put on was put together with that set and a 110V version I had bought for site work in less than 1 week.
Pete
They were the only people demoing machines I had not touched a TIG for over 2 years and only done a few welds with one.
I spoke to the lad demoing the machines he is now the sole importer for the UK.
told him what I wanted he came out with the line I had heard all day we have exactly what you are after and I said so has every one else he pointed to it yes it looked more impresive than any of the others I asked the Question How do you drive it he went through the dials as it was an early inverter with more dials than an areoplane cockpit. then he told me to have a go put 2 pieces of aluminium down with an open corner and told me to run along them I was reluctant as I had not done it in a long time and had not had the practice. when I had done I bought the set as it looked like some one had bent one piece then pit some lines in it to make it look like a weld. I now have 5 machines by EWM and they have not been a problem except when we had to straighten one with a sledge hammer after a scrap metal skip squashed it but it still worked with a new Regulator and some serious straightening. the new version is the Triton 220 AC/DC powersinus go tohttp://www1.ewm.de/ do not believe the specification as my sets have all done twice as well. I have never seen a single phase tig put an 8x4 8mm sheet in a bulker floor without stoping on a 13 amp fuse untill I brought that set the touch was seriously deformed as it had beenover heated slightly I was could not hold it with a welding gauntlet on.
tell him to save up and never regret the money he has spent.
The cross I have put on the introduction thread I have put on was put together with that set and a 110V version I had bought for site work in less than 1 week.
Pete
matt1978
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See Pete at least someone is talking sense!
EWM is a very good German brand, they guy you mention is Alan Cautchi, he now works for EWM UK. Good guy.
Its wrong to say that inverter prices are made artificially high by the manufacturers. You get what you pay for, as Pete testify's. I am not saying that people who want to use a welding machine for Occasional use and DIY should go and spend £1000's on top end kit like mine or EWM. But its very unfair to compare the Inverters that are coming out of China now, to the top end Professional stuff that's on the market.
People like us (Lorch) and EWM/Fronius etc are using next generation digital inverters that have a whole host of benefits over the stuff from China.
Maybe it is only a benefit to Industrial/Professional users, who knows! But don't try and say that we've been rumbled because you can now get Tig inverters from China for a 3rd of the price.
They are not the same technology/quality and personally I don't believe that they are reliable/robust enough for Industrial/Professional use. Only for DIY/Occasional use.
irondarren
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Lets be very honest here Matt, who runs big R&D departments, lorch,esab, in fact all the main players do. Trying to improve on old technology, and come up with something new. Coming up with something new that works is what gets you to stand out from the competition, it sells products, but unfortunatly R&D isnt free, its dam right expensive. None of the chinese machines will have anything new or inovative on them. You did say china was a growing market for lorch, possibly because they need to strip you machines down and copy them to catch up in terms of technology
But no R&D expenses means that hasnt had to be add to the overall cost of the machine
matt1978
www.lorch.eu
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Lets be very honest here Matt, who runs big R&D departments, lorch,esab, in fact all the main players do. Trying to improve on old technology, and come up with something new. Coming up with something new that works is what gets you to stand out from the competition, it sells products, but unfortunatly R&D isnt free, its dam right expensive. None of the chinese machines will have anything new or inovative on them. You did say china was a growing market for lorch, possibly because they need to strip you machines down and copy them to catch up in terms of technology
Yeah that does make a difference because it is part of the companys fixed costs. In Lorch's mission statement, it is said that they re-invest a mininium of 10% of Turnover PA back into R & D and that atleast 10% of the companys employees will be working in the R & D Dept. That of course costs money, as does honouring 3 yr warrentys and offering techincal support to our customers and garrenteeing that spare/wear parts will be avialable for atleast 10 yrs after production of that model ends. It all costs.
But thats still not to say that in General the Chinese inverters are of the same quality/spec as whats being produced in Europe by most of the reputable manufacturers.
But as I said before, I am not saying that these cheaper chinese products are not suitable for the DIY crowd. Thats a chance you take when you buy off Ebay or whatever, but thats their choice.
irondarren
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You say lorch spend 10% of there turnover on R&D or do you mean profit, if its turnover thats a massive amount, still 10% of profit would be a large amount.
I think its as they say horses for courses, I am unconvinced that a cheap chinese TIG unit would last much beyond the guarentee for my own useage, they get worked to hard and treated to badly. I did notice in the lorch book of welding about the units being able to be dropped, and i will quote from it
"Drop it? yes you can
Standards specify than an inverter welding device must be capable of withstanding a free drop of 25cm. But let's be honest: if a unit falls off a table or out of your hand it will be travelling a good 80cm before it hits the ground, An H from lorch is capable of surviving this degree of drop and will still go on working as reliable as ever. We dont know of any other product which can make a similar claim. Statistics show that a unit is bound to be dropped 4 times over its usefull life. etc etc"
dropped my EWM a few times, case is dented etc, its seen better days, but still welds nice. gets thrown in the motor when i have some site work to do and cant be bother with the weld/gen unit. Truth be know DIYers possibly as a general rule treat there tools better than us pro users, which might explain why as yet as far as we know no one on the forum has bought a cheap chinese TIG unit and broken it yet.
I think its as they say horses for courses, I am unconvinced that a cheap chinese TIG unit would last much beyond the guarentee for my own useage, they get worked to hard and treated to badly. I did notice in the lorch book of welding about the units being able to be dropped, and i will quote from it
"Drop it? yes you can
Standards specify than an inverter welding device must be capable of withstanding a free drop of 25cm. But let's be honest: if a unit falls off a table or out of your hand it will be travelling a good 80cm before it hits the ground, An H from lorch is capable of surviving this degree of drop and will still go on working as reliable as ever. We dont know of any other product which can make a similar claim. Statistics show that a unit is bound to be dropped 4 times over its usefull life. etc etc"
dropped my EWM a few times, case is dented etc, its seen better days, but still welds nice. gets thrown in the motor when i have some site work to do and cant be bother with the weld/gen unit. Truth be know DIYers possibly as a general rule treat there tools better than us pro users, which might explain why as yet as far as we know no one on the forum has bought a cheap chinese TIG unit and broken it yet.
