TIG gas flow rate

[Sparkey]

Helllooo how's every one doing over here
I was wondering if you need to change the gas flow rate if you change the cup or does it always stay the same? Is there some basic rule for the gas flow settings or not? Since i'm a novice on TIG i don't know what to believe anymore i even had someone tell me: the flow rate should be cup diameter x 2...
And oh yes, would that apply for a TIG welding robot too??? I'm currently running a TIG robot with a 9 cup on 18 lpm...that seems a lot of gas right?? Please can someone explain me???
Sparks

 

[eSCHEn]

Depends on material and tungsten protrusion for me. Stainless gets more than mild and a long tip gets more as well. As to how much it depends on your machine

Ball park for mild is 4 - 7 lpm and stainless maybe 5 - 8. YMMV!

I run 5 for everything and only up it to 7 or 8 if the job needs it or it's windy. If I need double figures then I wait for a calmer day

Big cups will need more but a #8 or less isn't "big". Your figure seems very high but I'm not a robot so they may need more?

Edit - @Robotstar5 is your man for non human. Not sure if he only deals with mig though?

 

[Sparkey]

Yes i'm sure Stu will be around soon once the R - word is dropped! but dunno if he knows about TIGbots aswell?

 

[hotrodder]

There are various cheat sheets about like this one nicked from CK

Usually none of them agree with each other...

Personally i'd say joint type, tungsten stick out and even amperage (more amps = larger weldpool) play a bigger role than cup size... any given cup will work over a range of flow rates and IME it's more a case of smaller cups don't cope with high flow rates very well rather than large cups need high flow rates to work properly. For example a #12 cup on a large gas lens can work fine at 5 lpm and provide better coverage than a smaller cup with the same flow rate. With a #12 the gas flow can be turned up lots before shielding quality drops due to the venturi effect dragging in air. Crank the flow rate up with a regular collet and a #4 or 5 cup and things rarely end well. Especially if the joint is an outside corner or a butt on small dia tube as geometry encourages the gas to flow away so the venturi effect will kick in sooner

A robot isn't gonna directly effect gas flow however travel speed can and typically robots are set up to work faster than humans

 

[eSCHEn]

Wow really, a #12 on 5lpm? I've got one here but never got along with it as it was so damn noisy with the amount of gas it "needed". Hmmm, hadn't considered venturi effect. I shall have to try it again!

Robot moving faster than a person was what I had meant but explained badly

Yes i'm sure Stu will be around soon once the R - word is dropped! but dunno if he knows about TIGbots aswell?

I'd sort of hoped you could scale it proportionately you know? So if a person doing MIG needs (par example) 10 and a robot 15 then a person doing TIG needing 5 would yield 5 * (15 / 10) = 7.5 for the 'bot.

I'm a programmer so you can always fudge it with maths

 

[Sparkey]

Wow really, a #12 on 5lpm? I've got one here but never got along with it as it was so damn noisy with the amount of gas it "needed". Hmmm, hadn't considered venturi effect. I shall have to try it again!

Robot moving faster than a person was what I had meant but explained badly



I'd sort of hoped you could scale it proportionately you know? So if a person doing MIG needs (par example) 10 and a robot 15 then a person doing TIG needing 5 would yield 5 * (15 / 10) = 7.5 for the 'bot.

I'm a programmer so you can always fudge it with maths

oi a programmer..... just joking mate what do you program? I just started trying to get my head around the programming of the motoman robot i work with....very difficult but interesting! I even did a read up on the programming language it uses just to learn and communicate with it i guess!

 

[hotrodder]

A #12 is still pretty audible even at 5lpm. Sparkey, what sort of amperage and travel speed are we talking about? Obviously if 18lpm works well not much point in changing when someone else is paying the argon bill, just curious if some of the other parameters would hint at the need for that sort of flow rate

 

[Robotstar5]

Edit - @Robotstar5 is your man for non human. Not sure if he only deals with mig though?

I mainly did Robot MIG welding, even then I would just get the parameters "in the ballpark" and leave it to the experts to fine tune the welds.

The only TIG welding robot I worked on had been badly programmed so it would burn out the base axis motor every 6 months, the owner didn't want the programme improving so we just charged for me to supply & fit a new motor every 6 months

 

[eSCHEn]

oi a programmer..... just joking mate what do you program? I just started trying to get my head around the programming of the motoman robot i work with....very difficult but interesting! I even did a read up on the programming language it uses just to learn and communicate with it i guess!

These days mainly tools for social work, mobile devices, backend services and lots of glue between horrible third parties. Graphics programmer at heart though

Do you use a flow control language or something logic block based? Or do you at least get to use a decent normal one?

 

[Sparkey]

These days mainly tools for social work, mobile devices, backend services and lots of glue between horrible third parties. Graphics programmer at heart though

Do you use a flow control language or something logic block based? Or do you at least get to use a decent normal one?

My motoman NX 100 uses the Inform programming language...not sure but most robots are using that i guess? I still have loaaads to learn tho, there's things i still don't understand about the way the programs are built up ( all kind of "jumps" "call" sub 1, sub 2.....) The programs are written by our german colleauges from the plant we got the robot from so....It's a big help for me already that i'm very interested in it and i'm quite at easy with computers and such!
Lol when i told my friend electrician (who has learnt me the robot basics) that i read the whole nx100 manual he gave me he thought i was nuts!
oh i'm sorry...i'm chattering on and on here...

 

[Sparkey]

A #12 is still pretty audible even at 5lpm. Sparkey, what sort of amperage and travel speed are we talking about? Obviously if 18lpm works well not much point in changing when someone else is paying the argon bill, just curious if some of the other parameters would hint at the need for that sort of flow rate

I'm afraid i have no acces to the parameters right now....i'm at home recovering from an emergency surgery, i had my appendix removed last saturday so i'm still off work...
I'm using a #9 cup with a lot of tungstène stick out to be able to weld the inlets and outlets of a stainless exhaust manifold. It also uses an argon-hydrogène gas mix if i'm correct...
So for the parameters i have to get back on you, sorry
Sparks

 

[eSCHEn]

My motoman NX 100 uses the Inform programming language...not sure but most robots are using that i guess? I still have loaaads to learn tho, there's things i still don't understand about the way the programs are built up ( all kind of "jumps" "call" sub 1, sub 2.....) The programs are written by our german colleauges from the plant we got the robot from so....It's a big help for me already that i'm very interested in it and i'm quite at easy with computers and such!
Lol when i told my friend electrician (who has learnt me the robot basics) that i read the whole nx100 manual he gave me he thought i was nuts!
oh i'm sorry...i'm chattering on and on here...

Not the more common Inform language then

Looks not too bad as languages go. At least you have a manual! http://spaz.org/~jake/robot/155493-INFORM-LANGUAGE.pdf

Subroutines/procedures/function are all very similar in application. You use then to break up a massive long block of code into more manageable chunks.

 

[Sparkey]

Not the more common Inform language then

Looks not too bad as languages go. At least you have a manual! http://spaz.org/~jake/robot/155493-INFORM-LANGUAGE.pdf

Subroutines/procedures/function are all very similar in application. You use then to break up a massive long block of code into more manageable chunks.

yes i have that inform manual stored on my i phone actually... next to the nx100 operators manual....please tell me that's not weird.... sorry for the off topic mods!

 

[eSCHEn]

Nope not weird. I have a thirty year old C manual for the same reason

 

[Richard.]

sorry for the off topic mods

It's your topic. You can sway it where ever you please sparks.
Regarding your flow rates cup sizes do make slight differences but unless your going crazy big then it will stay in the ball park. Personally 5lpm from a no 12 from my experience doesn't work so good. But as I haven't used a no 12 too often I can't comment deeply but I've always found a bigger cup that size and above tends to require bigger flow rates to be effective.
I tailor my flow rates to my joints 95% of the time and it's a logical thing of the more enclosed the joint is the lower the flow rate.
I'd never exceed 8lpm through my go to cup size which is usually a 7 for everything. Most of the time 5/6 lpm is a rate that works for me. I don't have a robot though nor do I set one up. It may be higher due to the speed it can go.

 

[Sparkey]

It's your topic. You can sway it where ever you please sparks.

haha no trust me on that i can't! Been around on this forum for a while now and i guess off topic is my middle name... believe me i have my own naughty corner in the mod's lounge...they put me there every now and then when i break the rules!!