Thermal arc 202 insides

[carbon]

Just found this in the TA202 manual

"When the 202AC/DC is used with a Remote Foot Control, disconnect the foot control to allow max current to be previewed / adjusted, then re connect foot control, max current that has been pre set will be output when foot control is fully depressed during welding. The maximum current can also be adjusted in welding operation when foot control is fully depressed. To avoid premature arcing, please ensure the TIG Torch is located away from your work piece"

I would assume that 4t doesn't work when the torch control is connected as there is a variable resistor included and the welder thinks it has a pedal connected so doesn't allow the 4t operation

 

[carbon]

Also found this regarding your earlier problem with the stick welding. The last line seems to confirm the issue you are having.

"3.11 Short Circuit Protection While Welding


To prolong the useful life of a TIG tungsten electrode, the 202 AC/DC incorporates special circuitry.

In DC LIFT TIG mode, if the tungsten electrode touches the work the welding current is reduced to 40 Amps.

In DC HF TIG mode, if the tungsten electrode touches the work the welding current is reduced to 30 Amps within 1 second.

In STICK mode, if the electrode touches the work for more than two seconds the welding current is reduced to 0 Amps."

 

[Richard.]

@poxxxy

If it is a case of usage and understanding the machine it's a bit of a trek but you'd be welcome to bring it round to me and we can determine whether it is doing what it's meant to do. You might be pleasantly surprised and give you a bit of peace of mind. I've used that exact machine a few times now and always had good results from them. If it is bust I can't fix it or advise but if it's not I can get wonderful results out of them. Pm me if you wish to do this. If it blows my house up mind you will have to buy me a new one Lol.

 

[Hood]

My Parweld XTT202P is the same with the torch connected when I have the button/Pot switch in place and from what I gather they are very similar machines.
I can however adjust the amps via the pot and they display correctly without having to disonnect and reconnect.
The big problem for me is 4T can not be used when I have that button/pot switch on the torch. Kind of defeats the purpose of having it as it is nigh on impossible to hold the button down and adjust the pot at the same time.
I filled in Parwelds online question form a few weeks ago asking of there was a way to get round this but sadly they have not responded. I may try again.

 

[Richard.]

he big problem for me is 4T can not be used when I have that button/pot switch on the torch. Kind of defeats the purpose of having it as it is nigh on impossible to hold the button down and adjust the pot at the same time.
I filled in Parwelds online question form a few weeks ago asking of there was a way to get round this but sadly they have not responded. I may try again.

Easy way to sort that would be adapt the arc starting switch to latch.

 

[Hood]

Not quite sure what you mean but I presume you mean to add some sort of latching relay. The thing is however I do not really want that to happen as 4T has some other nice features such as tapping the button when welding will reduce the current, tapping again it will go to back to full current, that is not available in 2T and if I latched it with a relay then it would still basically be in 2T.
I can live with it the way it is as I am actually starting to get used to the 3 button switch that came with the torch, one increases the current, one decreases and the third is just your normal button. It does seem strange however that Parweld do the button/Pot switch option but on their own welder it is basically useless if wanting to adjust whilst welding.
It worked great on the TecArc 251 AC/DC Squarewave I had before.

 

[Richard.]

Well yes you wouldn't have the initial and end currents associated with 4t but I've known people to fit latching switches to tig torches simply to press to turn on the arc then relax there fingers in a more preferable grip. That's not 2t because it's not hold and realease. But it is 2t in the respect there is only 2 stages to arc ignition/lights out.
Now yes you can reduce current and increase on the fly. Set a down slope for a few seconds. Switch off it phases down switch on it comes back up.
The guy that bought my kemppi bought his tig torch round to try it out and he had fitted his with a latchable switch taped round the torch handle. Was just the way he liked to use it.

 

[poxxxy]

It is indeed a bit of a trek, but it may come down to that Richard . Pretty sure the stick isn't in contact with the workpiece, but wondering why it would think that it is.Now you can see my confusion and google searching this behaviour on a few TA models seems to come up with similar answers, including mentions of different switches that fit the torch.

I'd like to be able to hook up my one of my valved wp9v torches that I've used on my parweld for dc scratch start tig playing. I guess I need some kind of male to male adapter for the gas fitting on the torch to the unit and I would need to use the foot pedal for it to work and add a switch to make sure the torch was live connected to the right pins. I have quite a few torches lying around from machines I've bought in the past but the gas connections aren't really suited... a replacement 8 pin connector for the thermal arc is rather pricey at around £30 inc postage from rapidwelding which is a little steep!

I've fired off an email over to Victor technologies to see if they can clarify the behaviour and thank you to Carbon+Hood for mentioning your own experiences with the same unit... now I just need to get clarification on the dip switch settings of others on the number 5 position... on or off... .

 

[Richard.]

What does the TA torch connection look like out of interest. Photo.

 

[carbon]

Pin connections and diagram are on page 3-5(23) of the Thermal Arc 202 Manual

I think I'm lucky then as mine just has a 5 pin din connector but it is a TA250 not a 202

Is the torch current control resistance the 5k that's specified in the manual

 

[Richard.]

Quite cheap here.
You should see the prices of them for my machine. Take a seat first mind.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...-plug/&usg=AFQjCNHx5JlXQu7_ubak57vgS8_O9BxCrw

 

[poxxxy]

Just an update: Yesterday the proprietary Thermal Arc shielding gas hose assembly arrived and today I put the dip switch number 5 back into the off position and proceeded to plug in the torch to see the front play behaved properly, 2t/4t etc works... max amps are adjustable at the front panel and anything below is available via the torch mechanism.

Seems the Thermal Arc service manual isn't quite right in that respect and the correct positions are 10110 (1-5 dipswitches/ 1 = on 2 = off) which correlates to the service manual for the American 186 AC/DC.

Now... I also concluded as carbon mentioned... that the short circuit protection is kicking in... 31 amps on HF tig on the display when arc is struck, 41 amps on lift tig, 2 seconds MMA welding before cut out... Someone advised to check the current sensor (hall effect) connections and they appear to be OK (going to WA on the main control unit). Just wondering where else I should start looking now... on some of the coils there is a little nasty glue looking stuff i'm not entirely sure should be there, but it is minimal. Cannot see any insulation breakdown elsewhere.

 

[Richard.]

Just an update: Yesterday the proprietary Thermal Arc shielding gas hose assembly arrived and today I put the dip switch number 5 back into the off position and proceeded to plug in the torch to see the front play behaved properly, 2t/4t etc works... max amps are adjustable at the front panel and anything below is available via the torch mechanism.

Seems the Thermal Arc service manual isn't quite right in that respect and the correct positions are 10110 (1-5 dipswitches/ 1 = on 2 = off) which correlates to the service manual for the American 186 AC/DC.

Now... I also concluded as carbon mentioned... that the short circuit protection is kicking in... 31 amps on HF tig on the display when arc is struck, 41 amps on lift tig, 2 seconds MMA welding before cut out... Someone advised to check the current sensor (hall effect) connections and they appear to be OK (going to WA on the main control unit). Just wondering where else I should start looking now... on some of the coils there is a little nasty glue looking stuff i'm not entirely sure should be there, but it is minimal. Cannot see any insulation breakdown elsewhere.

Sounds to me like it needs hooking up and playing with.

 

[poxxxy]

I'm definitely not touching the workpiece if that's what you are thinking . My tungsten is clean lol.... so it has to be whatever circuitry is responsible for detecting that. I can perhaps try and go through some of the basic troubleshooting/setup procedures now I guess but I need to order a good enough multimeter before I start probing around in there. At 31 amps and 41 amps the weld pool and arc looked lovely though . haha.

 

[poxxxy]

Well... its taken a short while but I now have a working Thermal Arc welder after replacing the Control PCB. With some communication with Andy Warren at Esab he has managed to assist me in sourcing the PCB and with him pulling some strings made it possible for me to purchase and repair the welder. It is a breath of fresh air to receive such customer service and I would not hesitate in future to order any Esab/Victor/Thermadyne product. Second to none!

I don't want to jump the gun, I haven't fired up the tig torch yet but there is behaviour noted from a working machine compared to a non working machine which lead to the same result as I had. I now have a voltage display on the Stick mode for starters .

I will give it some testing but thankfully all my investment eventually looks to have paid off.

 

[Tom Orrow L]

Well... its taken a short while but I now have a working Thermal Arc welder after replacing the Control PCB. With some communication with Andy Warren at Esab he has managed to assist me in sourcing the PCB and with him pulling some strings made it possible for me to purchase and repair the welder. It is a breath of fresh air to receive such customer service and I would not hesitate in future to order any Esab/Victor/Thermadyne product. Second to none!

I don't want to jump the gun, I haven't fired up the tig torch yet but there is behaviour noted from a working machine compared to a non working machine which lead to the same result as I had. I now have a voltage display on the Stick mode for starters .

I will give it some testing but thankfully all my investment eventually looks to have paid off.

Andy has helped out a fair few times here in sticky situations. Looks like those bits you had off me might come in use after all

 

[skotl]

Well... its taken a short while but I now have a working Thermal Arc welder after replacing the Control PCB. With some communication with Andy Warren at Esab he has managed to assist me in sourcing the PCB and with him pulling some strings made it possible for me to purchase and repair the welder. It is a breath of fresh air to receive such customer service and I would not hesitate in future to order any Esab/Victor/Thermadyne product. Second to none!

I don't want to jump the gun, I haven't fired up the tig torch yet but there is behaviour noted from a working machine compared to a non working machine which lead to the same result as I had. I now have a voltage display on the Stick mode for starters .

I will give it some testing but thankfully all my investment eventually looks to have paid off.

Excellent news! Great work by esab and you - it's really satisfying when you can bring something back from the dead, isn't it?

 

[addjunkie]

Quite cheap here.
You should see the prices of them for my machine. Take a seat first mind.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=13&ved=0ahUKEwjcpP_u_8PQAhWqL8AKHRcsAnAQFgg9MAw&url=http://www.weldingcentre.com/product/thermal-arc-8-pin-plug/&usg=AFQjCNHx5JlXQu7_ubak57vgS8_O9BxCrw

Thats half the price rapid sell them for

 

[Richard.]

Thats half the price rapid sell them for

Most things are a good chunk cheaper than there.
I used to buy all my consumables from rapid because let's face it there deivery service is second to none but when I was quoted by Jim for the exact same shopping list at almost half the price that soon put it into perspective.

 

[poxxxy]

It certainly is Skotl . Success at last, after the Cut50 and Super200P Saga's I was beginning to lose my mind!

I bought a few of the switch proprietary adapters so I will be converting a few of my other torches to use with the machine too. Now I need to build something to house the thing!