Tap & Die set

[brightspark]

Are these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BERGEN-32...867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f4030c5eb any good?

there the same ones machine mart are selling along with another couple of badged up names ive seen . i have a set they seem ok but the die and tap holders are a bit crap i ,use the moore and wright ones and simlar

 

[Rocketman]

I don't think you will get any tap and die set that is 'good' for £30 is the simple answer unless it's second hand.

 

[brightspark]

heres the machine mart ones and there half decent https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht527-32-pce-hss-tap-die-set?da=1&TC=SRC-taps and dies as i said its only the holders are a bit crap

 

[langy]

I don't think you will get any tap and die set that is 'good' for £30 is the simple answer unless it's second hand.

Best bit of advice so far in my opinion, You want to be looking for these names Dormer, Presto, Goliath, True-cut or the Rolls Royce of taps Blue Wizard, anything else isn't gonna compare to be honest.

 

[simplysimon]

unsurprisingly Presto International UK Ltd. is owned by a Chinese company Suncraft International

I doubt the quality of the well respected Presto Tools is there at all any more, most likely stripped, boxed and sold off long ago.

and for £30 you're just going to get _ _ _ _ _ (insert own expletive) but if you actually believe you're getting quality kit for this price I doubt it will really matter.

for good budget taps/dies look for Dormer E500 & F300 series or Roebuck have gotten me out of a tight spot more times than I'd care to remember.

if you want to have a heart attack and see what professional machine shops use look for Dormer E000

 

[langy]

unsurprisingly Presto International UK Ltd. is owned by a Chinese company Suncraft International

I doubt the quality of the well respected Presto Tools is there at all any more, most likely stripped, boxed and sold off long ago.

and for £30 you're just going to get _ _ _ _ _ (insert own expletive) but if you actually believe you're getting quality kit for this price I doubt it will really matter.

for good budget taps/dies look for Dormer E500 & F300 series or Roebuck have gotten me out of a tight spot more times than I'd care to remember.

if you want to have a heart attack and see what professional machine shops use look for Dormer E000

Just because its owned by chinese don't mean its crap stuff, the chinese can make excellent quality parts, the problem arises when buyers from overseas set the costs

 

[simplysimon]

Just because its owned by chinese don't mean its crap stuff, the chinese can make excellent quality parts, the problem arises when buyers from overseas set the costs

http://www.presto-tools.co.uk/our-heritage/

the company was asset stripped in the late '80s by the James Wilkes Group and later by two more companies looking for a quick buck in the mid '90s then sold a few more times, no doubt stripping and paring down what was left until finally in "June 2006 saw Presto return to an independent state as Suncraft international purchased the Presto brand from Kennametal"

just like most of the British engineering industry that had a half decent reputation it was bought out by foreign investment perpetuated by our government, who at the time had no clue just how devastating such hostile takeovers of our industry would be in the years to come.

 

[langy]

http://www.presto-tools.co.uk/our-heritage/

the company was asset stripped in the late '80s by the James Wilkes Group and later by two more companies looking for a quick buck in the mid '90s then sold a few more times, no doubt stripping and paring down what was left until finally in "June 2006 saw Presto return to an independent state as Suncraft international purchased the Presto brand from Kennametal"

just like most of the British engineering industry that had a half decent reputation it was bought out by foreign investment perpetuated by our government, who at the time had no clue just how devastating such hostile takeovers of our industry would be in the years to come.

I thiink you missed my point

 

[balmerchris]

I have a set of volkel hss in metric, I think they are German. Used them quite a bit and they seem pretty good quality.

 

[oilyneil]

China has a space program !, As Langy says, its not all crap,, and there is just as much crap coming from other countries too!

 

[simplysimon]

I thiink you missed my point

not at all, it was pretty generic, most countries must have companies that have a decent outlook towards quality and ethical behaviour, even China

 

[MattF]

just like most of the British engineering industry that had a half decent reputation it was bought out by foreign investment perpetuated by our government, who at the time had no clue just how devastating such hostile takeovers of our industry would be in the years to come.

A lot of our companies which have been taken over have either disappeared or turned out tosh since. However, most of those disasters were/are due to either English or American companies taking them over. As an English example of company destroyers, look at Asquith's? for one, and for the American example we need look no further than Irwin/Rubbermaid. As Langy said, the Chinese themselves are by no means incapable of turning out excellent quality kit on par with any other country. A foreign company with shareholders asking them to produce a budget item should not reflect on their abilities, but unfortunately it does. Look at Taiwan as an example. When the foreign companies generally moved away from them due to rising costs, the quality of their export produce literally improved overnight. That should be a bit of a giveaway as to where the blame lay. What was classed as import tat one time of day, nowadays I'd have no qualms about buying or using most Taiwanese gear.

 

[Rocketman]

The trouble with China is if you just leave them to there own devices they will get in HSS from China and my experience of Chinese steel is not good - their P20 and other tool steels are way below European, Japanese and American standard.

So when you have an injection mould tool made in China you have to specify the exact steel to be used. In addition the tool will require certificates for the steel used to prove it.

The thing is it is very expensive in China to import foreign steel (surprise ) so anyone who manufactures in China is very keen to use home grown supplies.

Right apart from this going back to the price. If you say a decent tap and die set costs £300+ (and lot more in many case) there is no way even with the lower wages in China that you can make the same quality for £30. I would speculate half the price at best.

Now MattF has covered this a little above. Funny he should say Taiwan. A lot of Britool stuff is now made in Taiwan, while it's cheaper than it's sister company which makes a lot of their stuff in France it's still far from cheap. OK some of that will be advertising but a lot will be to do with the quality of materials used, labour quality, actual tool quality/design for the job and overheads of quality assurance. You just can't skip a lot of stuff to make decent tools.

BTW what I do notice with a lot of these cheap tap and die sets is that they just have one medium sized tap wrench lever. Fact is for small taps you want to use the smallest lever you can to avoid stressing the tap.

 

[roofman]

Grrrrr talking of taps,making some new engine mounts today for a wacker plate and took out one of my best hss 8x1.25 chappies...rushing before my cuppa went cold i wound to far in without clearing and "tang" it went right at the top of hole.Drunk my cold tea and then spent 20 mins getting the b*****d out.. Ive recently started winding them into holes using Johns (doubleboost) method of starting the drill and switching off as you wind in.much better than trying to get a bite freehand and keeping it square.Done this on my lathe with the tailstock dragging in but for some strange reason never thought to do it on the mill/drill.

 

[brightspark]

Grrrrr talking of taps,making some new engine mounts today for a wacker plate and took out one of my best hss 8x1.25 chappies...rushing before my cuppa went cold i wound to far in without clearing and "tang" it went right at the top of hole.Drunk my cold tea and then spent 20 mins getting the b*****d out.. Ive recently started winding them into holes using Johns (doubleboost) method of starting the drill and switching off as you wind in.much better than trying to get a bite freehand and keeping it square.Done this on my lathe but for some strange reason never thought to do it on the mill/drill.

if i do them in the drill i just put the tap in the chuck wind down the quill with one hand and turn the chuck with the other and wind it in back and forth . take it out and finish tapping by hand in the vice. ive only snapped 2 in 60 years

 

[Sidewinder]

Why buy a set?
Why not buy good quality kit for what you need as you need it?
That way you spread the spend out, and can afford better kit.

 

[simplysimon]

@roofman & brightspark guys if you want the feel that manual tapping allows but the accuracy of using a mill/drill to zero you should make a spring loaded tapping centre, I've made half a dozen or so of these for m8s throughout the years and AFAIK they are all sill in use. Very useful on <4mm

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@Sidewinder for me the benefit of buying a kit over individual items would be reduced cost and the convenience of having the most useful sizes close at hand and in one place, you'll get to buy them one by one as you break and replace them though!

 

[Sidewinder]

I run a business where I need such items to undertake manufacturing equipment breakdowns for customers.
This is how I earn my living, on mechanical and electrical/electronic/software related machinery repairs primarily.
These days I can get most "normal" taps & dies/die nuts during a normal working week, if ordered before 20:00 by 09:30 the following morning.
Now if my clients can't wait that long, then their business continuity plans need serious revision.
The cost implication of the delivery pales into insignificance in comparison to the cost of the downtime.
Now unless you are supporting customers 24/365 with a guaranteed uptime, I fail to see why you need to buy a set of items when you can spread your expenditure out, and obtain better quality kit in the bargain, whilst not as cheap over the years, the amortisation of the spend will more than accommodate that.
I have from 2mm to 24mm in metric std. and probably half the span in standard metric fine, what I need in BSW, BSF, UNC & UNF, all in the shape of taps, dies & die nuts, buying them as needed.
I do the same with keyway broaches & bushes, larger drills, reamers, & other "specialist" metal cutting tooling etc.etc.

 

[brightspark]

this is what u use when tapping in the lathe . make one of these no fannying around with reverse and fits both lathes. just a slip fit on the shaft

 

[simplysimon]

very nice BS, I used to enjoy screw cutting external threads on manual lathes but using taps in the tail stock while turning a 10/12 inch chuck with the key for internal threads was not my idea of fun as you have no feel as to how much stress the tap is under, your idea looks very inventive though but wouldn't have helped me on the 15ish foot long Colchester I last used, now I just hand over what I want made to the chaps in the lathe shop, they are all cnc and I don't know enough fanuc to comfortably guarantee I don't kill a £50000 bit of kit lol