you are allowed 2500 ltrs of wvo, svo, home produced biodiesel, in any form for private use, this has been covered in various forums since it first became the norm, If you take a bottle of veg oil from the shelf, remove the top, and pour it into your tank, you are producing svo for use in a diesel engine, there has been reams of forum disscusions on this subject, including hmrc, the only things you are not allowed to use are rebated carbon based oils of any kind
- Thread starter Cobbler
- Start date
oil in the fuel dose help a LOT with older diesels. dont have cylinder v's cranck angel pressure traces ect ( chould get them if was really botherd )
but few small pump engines have been running on mix for meany years now and in general they are runnning better.
as in no injector / pump problems. and they arre useing slightly less fuel.
pump problems were getting to be a right twerp on some of the old engines running on ULS but with a lot of 6 cyl common rail diesels that require super pure and DRY, ULS diesel or they promtly trash there injectors and pressure pumps way to risky haveing multigrades of the "same" fuel
but few small pump engines have been running on mix for meany years now and in general they are runnning better.
as in no injector / pump problems. and they arre useing slightly less fuel.
pump problems were getting to be a right twerp on some of the old engines running on ULS but with a lot of 6 cyl common rail diesels that require super pure and DRY, ULS diesel or they promtly trash there injectors and pressure pumps way to risky haveing multigrades of the "same" fuel
Lawnmowerboy
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As far as I understand it not all types of injection pumps are happy with running SVO? Does it have any long term effects on the I/P. Namely a Peugeot 205 GRD with the 1.8 XUD7 non turbo engine. Will the shot of 2 stroke in the veggie oil help in the same way as in derv. Is it best to run a mix of svo and derv?
Windy Miller
Semi-Professional Potterer!
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Do you think it needs it LMB? That engine always ran like a new one so I'm wondering if you'd see any benefit from the 2 stroke oil. The injectors may need a shot of something as its been standing for so long but generally that engine was a little Jem!
I may well put some in my L200 though - although that's running very well at the moment too so part of me thinks leave well alone!
I'd like to know more about this so it's Google time I think!
I may well put some in my L200 though - although that's running very well at the moment too so part of me thinks leave well alone!
I'd like to know more about this so it's Google time I think!
rtbcomp
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Can you link to a Government website that gives definitive answers?
SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil) is the oil you get from Asda and pour in your tank, not what you produce for use in a diesel engine.
I guess you could argue you're making a blend, on the other hand you could argue you're using it as fuel in its own right, or even an additive, both of which are liable to duty. If you mixed it in a bucket then poured the mixture into your tank then I reckon you're filling up with a blend.
The 2500 litre allowance is for fuel produced by someone using one of various methods, not the SVO added to the fuel.
rtbcomp
Moderator
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I think I've found it, from the HMRC link I posted earlier
4.2.4 Can vegetable oil be used or sold as motor fuel free of excise duty?
Vegetable oil (unused and used, processed or unprocessed) that is set aside or intended for use as motor fuel is liable to duty unless the producer is exempt as described in paragraph 4.2.1. Vegetable oil producers and retailers who make and supply their oils for cooking are not liable to register and account for duty on their sales if the oil is subsequently used as, or to produce, motor fuel. Cooking oil producers and retailers who supply direct to fuel producers and distributors are not liable for duty unless they have set aside all or part of their production as motor fuel. In these scenarios it is the fuel producer or distributor who is liable to register and account for duty.
4.2.1 Exempt producers/users
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:
any biofuel, or
any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty. However, there are simple record keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.
Production includes the manufacture or processing of road fuel, and the setting aside of any product that has not been charged with duty, with the intention of using it as road fuel.
4.9.1 Exempt producers’ records
If you are an exempt producer (as defined in paragraph 4.2.1) you only need to record and keep the following information:
the date of each supply and/or own use
the amount in standard litres of each supply or own use
You should check the amounts produced at the end of each month. If you have produced 2,500 litres or more in the last 12 months, or expect to produce 2,500 litres or more in the next 12 months, you must contact us within 30 days to register your premises as described in paragraph 2.5.
Important: The following paragraph has the force of law.
Under the powers given by regulation 6 of the Biofuels and Other Fuel Substitutes Payment of Excise Duties, etc. (Amendment) Regulations 2007, HMRC require that the records of litres and dates as specified in paragraph 4.10 below are kept by exempt producers and preserved for six years, or for a lesser period if HMRC allow.
top ^
4.10 How long must I keep my records?
Registered and exempt producers must keep records for six years. If this will cause you problems you should contact the Helpline on Tel 0845 010 9000 who can advise you about asking for permission to keep your records for a shorter period.
top ^
4.11 Do I have to keep paper records?
You can keep your records on film or electronically, provided that the records are legible and you provide the necessary facilities to read the records. Notice 206 Revenue Traders Records, available from our website, has more information.
4.2.4 Can vegetable oil be used or sold as motor fuel free of excise duty?
Vegetable oil (unused and used, processed or unprocessed) that is set aside or intended for use as motor fuel is liable to duty unless the producer is exempt as described in paragraph 4.2.1. Vegetable oil producers and retailers who make and supply their oils for cooking are not liable to register and account for duty on their sales if the oil is subsequently used as, or to produce, motor fuel. Cooking oil producers and retailers who supply direct to fuel producers and distributors are not liable for duty unless they have set aside all or part of their production as motor fuel. In these scenarios it is the fuel producer or distributor who is liable to register and account for duty.
4.2.1 Exempt producers/users
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:
any biofuel, or
any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty. However, there are simple record keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.
Production includes the manufacture or processing of road fuel, and the setting aside of any product that has not been charged with duty, with the intention of using it as road fuel.
4.9.1 Exempt producers’ records
If you are an exempt producer (as defined in paragraph 4.2.1) you only need to record and keep the following information:
the date of each supply and/or own use
the amount in standard litres of each supply or own use
You should check the amounts produced at the end of each month. If you have produced 2,500 litres or more in the last 12 months, or expect to produce 2,500 litres or more in the next 12 months, you must contact us within 30 days to register your premises as described in paragraph 2.5.
Important: The following paragraph has the force of law.
Under the powers given by regulation 6 of the Biofuels and Other Fuel Substitutes Payment of Excise Duties, etc. (Amendment) Regulations 2007, HMRC require that the records of litres and dates as specified in paragraph 4.10 below are kept by exempt producers and preserved for six years, or for a lesser period if HMRC allow.
top ^
4.10 How long must I keep my records?
Registered and exempt producers must keep records for six years. If this will cause you problems you should contact the Helpline on Tel 0845 010 9000 who can advise you about asking for permission to keep your records for a shorter period.
top ^
4.11 Do I have to keep paper records?
You can keep your records on film or electronically, provided that the records are legible and you provide the necessary facilities to read the records. Notice 206 Revenue Traders Records, available from our website, has more information.
Shox Dr
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Injector pumps rely on diesel for lubrication, WVO/SVO is thicker so may not reach all areas lubricating thus causing problems.
Common rails for some reason don't it, for other reasons I don't know enough about to comment
the snooper
getting older by the day
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untreated svo needs heating before use so the engine would need to be hot before switching to it and would need switching back to diesel before stopping the engine so the injector pump was full of diesel not svo
octo0072000
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depends on the injector pump if it's a Lucas pump it's a no no for veg oil
if it's the Bosch pump it will run up to 100% veg oil in summer
all depends on the pump
octo0072000
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all depends on the type of pump and what blend you are using
what you are thinking of is twin tanking
not needed on some cars
HMRC allow 2500l per rolling 12 months before duty is liable, this applies to all organically derived fuels, which includes waste veg oil, fresh veg oil and even turpentine.
The oils are actually excellent lubricators (some injector cleaner has it in), the issue comes with viscosity affecting some rotary injection pumps (Lucas - can shear the drive shaft clean off!) and common rails that expect diesel viscosity. Also with injection into a cold engine - that nasty rubbery stuff you get on the underneath of a frying pan you definitely do not want on your piston rings, as it gets so hard they become unable to follow the contours of the piston bore and loss of compression ensues.
Biodiesel on the other hand, consists of much smaller molecules (individual fatty acid chains rather than three joined in a triglyceride) and can be safely injected into a cold engine without danger of this gumming occurring. It is also much lower viscosity - if properly made - which makes it more suited for modern common-rail engines. That said, it is a strong solvent, so can affect seals and pipes.
It's certainly not for everyone, but I've run on nothing but homebrew biodiesel since 2008. I'd say it took me a year to get good at it, and I did kill an injection pump - but hey, that's what breakers yards are for
The oils are actually excellent lubricators (some injector cleaner has it in), the issue comes with viscosity affecting some rotary injection pumps (Lucas - can shear the drive shaft clean off!) and common rails that expect diesel viscosity. Also with injection into a cold engine - that nasty rubbery stuff you get on the underneath of a frying pan you definitely do not want on your piston rings, as it gets so hard they become unable to follow the contours of the piston bore and loss of compression ensues.
Biodiesel on the other hand, consists of much smaller molecules (individual fatty acid chains rather than three joined in a triglyceride) and can be safely injected into a cold engine without danger of this gumming occurring. It is also much lower viscosity - if properly made - which makes it more suited for modern common-rail engines. That said, it is a strong solvent, so can affect seals and pipes.
It's certainly not for everyone, but I've run on nothing but homebrew biodiesel since 2008. I'd say it took me a year to get good at it, and I did kill an injection pump - but hey, that's what breakers yards are for
octo0072000
Member
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HMRC allow 2500l per rolling 12 months before duty is liable, this applies to all organically derived fuels, which includes waste veg oil, fresh veg oil and even turpentine.
The oils are actually excellent lubricators (some injector cleaner has it in), the issue comes with viscosity affecting some rotary injection pumps (Lucas - can shear the drive shaft clean off!) and common rails that expect diesel viscosity. Also with injection into a cold engine - that nasty rubbery stuff you get on the underneath of a frying pan you definitely do not want on your piston rings, as it gets so hard they become unable to follow the contours of the piston bore and loss of compression ensues.
Biodiesel on the other hand, consists of much smaller molecules (individual fatty acid chains rather than three joined in a triglyceride) and can be safely injected into a cold engine without danger of this gumming occurring. It is also much lower viscosity - if properly made - which makes it more suited for modern common-rail engines. That said, it is a strong solvent, so can affect seals and pipes.
It's certainly not for everyone, but I've run on nothing but homebrew biodiesel since 2008. I'd say it took me a year to get good at it, and I did kill an injection pump - but hey, that's what breakers yards are for
Hi Tony
still got the Deli i presume thought you might pop up here soon
Cobbler
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Just an update, I filled up with Shell super diesel, the mileage was virtually unchanged over a tankful & I noticed no difference in performance. As to whether it ran cleaner, I don't know. I will fill up sometime with the BP version & try that. At nearly 600 miles to a tank it's a slow process to test.
Cobbler
Cobbler
