This is what I find really weird about this design. Why not key the beams together?! Then there is also passive support that doesn't rely totally on welds!
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finyuk2005
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Lovely paint job this time at least!
The steels have to be apart as it’s a cavity wall. One steel is supporting the outer leaf and the other is supporting the inner leaf with a gap in between the two for cavity insulation
Mark 2
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Get the boy to paint it before the slag removal.
grinder and paint , ... etc
I guess its better than the first go , still wasnt done by someone who can actually weld ,,, will it do ,,,, probably ............................ would I be happy , nope not really.
on b1 it looks like the weld has totally missed where it should be ,,, Ill get a closer look later on my computer ,,, it just looks odd / off . and few of the welds look equal .
is there no one local who can actually weld who would sort it ?
I guess its better than the first go , still wasnt done by someone who can actually weld ,,, will it do ,,,, probably ............................ would I be happy , nope not really.
on b1 it looks like the weld has totally missed where it should be ,,, Ill get a closer look later on my computer ,,, it just looks odd / off . and few of the welds look equal .
is there no one local who can actually weld who would sort it ?
I don't mean the two beams that run parallel to each other. What doesn't make sense to me is why they don't key in to the beam at 90° to them - the one the flat plate is welded to, so that they rest on that.
Pigeon_Droppings2
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I had the same thought ...if it's not connected to the vertical spine of the main beam then the flange is being used to transmit the loads which seems very odd.
Is there a stiffener plate connecting the double steel flat back plate into the spine of the main beam maybe but just not shown in the pics?
Looking at diagram con01... there's an "8mm stiffener" (seems to be an arrow pointing to something in the diagram) which transmits the main load to the vertical of the main beam?
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Exactly that.
Pigeon_Droppings2
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I reckon the stiffener is probably hidden behind that main plate...it then all makes sense.
It still is awful. I wouldn't pay for any of that. The 2nd welder (used in the loosest of terms) didn't stand a chance as there was no way of getting in between the two beams to clear the previous snot off. I'd be going to another structural engineer (an old school one more adept and experienced at overcoming difficult junctions ) and get a bolted solution. I'm sure that you will find one. The original one might have designed a theoretical beam installation but they took no account of the practical requirements to install it within your house. I certainly wouldn't be paying the builder for this as they have effectively turned new steel into a mediocre job that no one in their right mind would put their name to. Trouble is that if you accept this then the structural engineer and builder will just continue to do this whenever they can. The race to the bottom continues in this country! I would find a proper structural steel company (they do exist) and use them. It will no doubt cost more than the builder has allowed but it will be right.
actually it looks like quite a few of the runs have missed the joint , certainly the underside ones have , ad the verticals have been dons as long tacks and just piled ontop of each other to make it look welded ,,, stacking tacks is a technique that has its uses ,,, its just not here ,,,, but its now at the point where to make a nice job of it is going to take a fair bit of effort ,, and a while grinding / cleaning back , what would I do if it were mine ,,,, Id run the idea of a plate bolted each side of the two parallel beams going back to the center web of the main beam , but I would have the original engineer pass the idea first ,,, trouble is that now I wouldnt really be wanting to take the two parallel beams out totally and starting again ,,, but I wouldnt be covering it up just yet.
Hi ash1356. Has this recent welding remedial work been inspected and approved by your Local Authority Building Control? It may be beneficial if you give notification to the Council so that they can inspect and confirm that that everything complies. This could be beneficial if at a future date you sell the property and at this time that your property insurance is not compromised or invalidated.
MetalMonkey
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If they had coped both ends of the beam or added a lip on the flange end to catch the beam, then it would have been less concerning, as the welds would have just been resisting twisting rather than supporting all the weight.
Some bolted in angle braces might be another way to beef it up, but this is all a bit shade tree fabrication, for a proper structural design, that by their own admission, required welding because the calculated loads are too high for bolting - it raises serious concerns.
The reworked welding looks better than it did, but that's not really saying much.
I made a similar hash of the first beam I welded for my garage, and that was only supporting a corrugated roof. And I was still so mortified, I spent half a day with a diegrinder gouging it out so I could have another attempt. And I'm just a hobbyist in a shed that likes to play about. So I defer to the proper welders on here, but I'd still be unhappy with that, and be tasking the engineer to come up with a better solution if that was my money being spent.
Some bolted in angle braces might be another way to beef it up, but this is all a bit shade tree fabrication, for a proper structural design, that by their own admission, required welding because the calculated loads are too high for bolting - it raises serious concerns.
The reworked welding looks better than it did, but that's not really saying much.
I made a similar hash of the first beam I welded for my garage, and that was only supporting a corrugated roof. And I was still so mortified, I spent half a day with a diegrinder gouging it out so I could have another attempt. And I'm just a hobbyist in a shed that likes to play about. So I defer to the proper welders on here, but I'd still be unhappy with that, and be tasking the engineer to come up with a better solution if that was my money being spent.
I'm not saying it's better than a bolted joint, but I think some of you might be surprised at what would constitute a sufficient size of weld for the thickness of steels here.
I was under some bolted structural steelwork at work today - flat plates welded to the webs of beams, no stiffener behind. Perfectly fine. I think the photos of the revised work will be okay too.
I last designed bolted structural steel work around 25 yrs ago for a two storey wash plant going into a well known multicylinder diesel engine manufacturer in Germany - I might have referred to a book from the 1930's for the bolted joints
I was under some bolted structural steelwork at work today - flat plates welded to the webs of beams, no stiffener behind. Perfectly fine. I think the photos of the revised work will be okay too.
I last designed bolted structural steel work around 25 yrs ago for a two storey wash plant going into a well known multicylinder diesel engine manufacturer in Germany - I might have referred to a book from the 1930's for the bolted joints
finyuk2005
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worked with a boy in a shipyard that always yelled at me if i chipped his slag off......"it looks better with it on!"
addjunkie
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Was this in the days of old when paid for productivity rather than quality, and I herd tell rods were laid along a fillet and a nice big weave over the top!worked with a boy in a shipyard that always yelled at me if i chipped his slag off......"it looks better with it on!"
Ive a copy of x ray somewhere that was taken of deck plates done that way [ slugging ] and you can see about a dozen rods capped over ,,, the whole boat was rejected or so the story went ,,,, famous graph that turns up in a lot of radiography courses.
