Structural welds on residential property

[Jelly_Sheffield]

To the op -

Don't stress too much, you just need someone in to do it properly. Don't let the existing person back on it irrespective of the promises made.

If it helps @ash1356, try https://www.mksteelworks.co.uk/steel-fabrication/nottinghamshire/worksop/

They're vaguely local to you, and in a previous life they the did the on-site welding work on a project I managed to modify existing sheds on a large industrial site...

Which they did entirely competently, at a perfectly reasonable price (I don't think they were the absolute cheapest hourly rate, but they worked out the best bid due to timing and travel distance).

For your purposes I imagine you'd be paying as much for their time to drive over from Worksop or Mansfield as for the time taken actually re-doing the welding.

 

[Munkul]

On site welding isn't covered by structural steel standards.

The vertical welds look like they've been done uphill, which is a good sign. One of those beads looks like the slag is still attached over the top.
I'm not saying the welding is good, but it looks like it won't fall apart at least.
However, it's your house, if you want it "right" then someone will have to redo it.

 

[Bornfree]

His vertical is not that bad but he needs a little more practise on overhead. Tell him to keep a tighter arc. And buy a grinder.

 

[dobbslc]

Last time we had a very similar enquiry on here, I think the Building Control weren't interested/bothered and the homeowner had the welding redone by someone competent.

That could very well have been me!
I had an almost identical problem when my builders "mate" turned up to weld some steels in my house, when I got home and saw it I wasn't impressed! No paint ground off and spattery welds like the OP's photos.
I got someone off this forum to come over and sort it out.
Building control came out and said it looked ok but wouldn't sign anything to say so (they aren't welders) so I wouldn't bother with them, they really are just box ticking pen pushers now.
Did he run out of gas when he did this or was it flux core wire he used?

 

[Bornfree]

That could very well have been me!
I had an almost identical problem when my builders "mate" turned up to weld some steels in my house, when I got home and saw it I wasn't impressed! No paint ground off and spattery welds like the OP's photos.
I got someone off this forum to come over and sort it out.
Building control came out and said it looked ok but wouldn't sign anything to say so (they aren't welders) so I wouldn't bother with them, they really are just box ticking pen pushers now.
Did he run out of gas when he did this or was it flux core wire he used?

Stick welded.

 

[dobbslc]

Stick welded

AHH so no gas then!

 

[ash1356]

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I will have a chat with the builder today to insist he gets someone else in to grind back the welds and start again. This time, actually vetting who he gets in.

 

[MetalMonkey]

One of those looks like he missed the joint entirely and wandered off course...
Aside from the concerns over structural integrity, just for the hassle and effort of trying to correct it later I'd want that ground out and rewelded at this stage IMO.

 

[ash1356]

UPDATE

I’ve spoken with the builder, who has in turn contacted the welding company (Delta Engineers).

They’ve advised that they will return tomorrow to address the welds by grinding them back and re-welding. I’m not entirely convinced how practical this will be, as the two beams are only 70 mm apart and welded to a fin plate, which makes access extremely limited.

Regarding the primer, they have stated it is a weldable primer. I have requested the product data sheet to verify this.

I have also asked to see the welder’s certification.

I feel slightly more reassured, but I’m still concerned that once they arrive, they may discover they cannot fully grind back or rework the welds due to the restricted access.

 

[tom2207]

UPDATE

I’ve spoken with the builder, who has in turn contacted the welding company (Delta Engineers).

They’ve advised that they will return tomorrow to address the welds by grinding them back and re-welding. I’m not entirely convinced how practical this will be, as the two beams are only 70 mm apart and welded to a fin plate, which makes access extremely limited.

Regarding the primer, they have stated it is a weldable primer. I have requested the product data sheet to verify this.

I have also asked to see the welder’s certification.

I feel slightly more reassured, but I’m still concerned that once they arrive, they may discover they cannot fully grind back or rework the welds due to the restricted access.

a mag drill and some right angle brackets i always an option to keep in the back of your mind , for a hundred quid plates could be bought , mag drill hired and the likes ,,, overkill maybe , peace of mind ,,,, its a bargain , but if the next guy can actually weld all will be grand ,,,, fingers crossed ,,
remember
to be a professional , you only have to get paid for doing it ,,,, no one ever said you had to be good at it.

 

[ash1356]

a mag drill and some right angle brackets i always an option to keep in the back of your mind , for a hundred quid plates could be bought , mag drill hired and the likes ,,, overkill maybe , peace of mind ,,,, its a bargain , but if the next guy can actually weld all will be grand ,,,, fingers crossed ,,
remember
to be a professional , you only have to get paid for doing it ,,,, no one ever said you had to be good at it.

What are mag drill and right angles? How would they be fixed to the steels?

 

[8ob]

I always look at this sort of thing and wonder which dinlo designed it, those beams should have had the end plates welded on and the beams bolted into position, you can’t get between two narrowly spaced beams and get a proper weld.

Bob

 

[Robotstar5]

Ask him if he used a helmet....

The agency sent us a "welder" for a production welding job, applicants were asked to run a couple of beads to prove they know one end of a torch from the other, this guy didn't have a mask because "I just squint when I'm welding", he was shown the door.

 

[ash1356]

I always look at this sort of thing and wonder which dinlo designed it, those beams should have had the end plates welded on and the beams bolted into position, you can’t get between two narrowly spaced beams and get a proper weld.

Bob

Structural engineer did look at the bolting option but after doing the calcs, he determined the loadings were too high for bolting

 

[Mick Annick]

I always look at this sort of thing and wonder which dinlo designed it, those beams should have had the end plates welded on and the beams bolted into position, you can’t get between two narrowly spaced beams and get a proper weld.

Bob

Not seen or heard that used in years!

 

[MetalMonkey]

to be a professional , you only have to get paid for doing it ,,,, no one ever said you had to be good at it.

Never a truer word written

Structural engineer did look at the bolting option but after doing the calcs, he determined the loadings were too high for bolting

And therein lies the issue with theory vs practice.
A welded joint might be stronger if done to a certain standard – but a bolted join requires far less skill to assemble with a consistent standard.
On site you have to assume the worst, because it usually is.

 

[tom2207]

mag drill , magnetic drill

simple enough job if your used to this kind of work ,,, its an easy morning for someone whos used to it

 

[tom2207]

Structural engineer did look at the bolting option but after doing the calcs, he determined the loadings were too high for bolting

add more bolts ,,,, the joint only has to be as good as the plate thats welded to the i beam at the back ,,,, half the buildings you walk past will be bolted together ,,,

 

[dobbslc]

On site you have to assume the worst, because it usually is.

Half the construction industry is populated by people with longer arms than legs...

 

[Bki26]

Ive seen better welds on a log splitter ,,

And those welds are plenty strong enough as I've proved to the naysayers, should pack my gear and come do these beams as definitely better than the builder's guy!