Structural welds on residential property

[ash1356]

Hi all,

I’m new here and would really appreciate some urgent advice regarding a residential weld on my project.

Our builder, who has been good up to now - brought in a welder today to join two steel beams (one supporting the inner leaf and one supporting the outer leaf) onto another steel using a welded plate. I’ve attached some photos along with the structural engineer’s details for reference.

Unfortunately, I wasn’t home when the welder arrived; otherwise, I would have asked questions on the spot. Now that I’ve seen it, I’m concerned about the quality of the work and its structural integrity - although I’m not a welding expert, something doesn’t look right to me. The Acrow props are still in place.

My main concerns are:

• The welder hasn’t ground the primer at all. I’m worried about how well a fillet weld can bond through primer, and whether porosity could be an issue now that the paint has been burnt off instead of properly cleaned.
• Some welds appear to be “sitting on top” of the steel rather than blending into it, which makes me question the fusion.
• There’s a huge amount of spatter. It almost looks like someone practising, which doesn’t fill me with confidence about the welder’s competence.
• The structural engineer specified 6mm fillet welds, but what’s been done looks very inconsistent.

I’ve sent the photos to both Building Control and the structural engineer, but Building Control have been pretty unhelpful so far in the project and seem reluctant to take responsibility for anything.

Before I push this further, I’d really value the opinion of people who actually know what they’re looking at. Do I have legitimate cause for concern here?

Thanks in advance - any guidance would be hugely appreciated

 

[6ply]

Looks crap to me.

 

[Tigman]

Ask the welder for his certification , should have given you a copy for the file !

 

[ash1356]

Ask the welder for his certification , should have given you a copy for the file !

Is this something builder control will want to see?

What if the welder has no certification?

 

[tom2207]

That wasnt done by a welder , it wasnt even done by someone who can weld

its been done by someone who has access to a welding machine

on closer inspection it does rely on the plate weld to support that end of the beam ,,, nope thats not good ,,,, a picture of the plate to beam joint would help too , its the one thats not shown its the one on the beam against the wall , it would give you an idea of how the welds should look.
building control will need to get a look at it , so the decision is out of your hands , but looking at the arc strikes alone tells you all you need to know. Some of it may look better chipped and wire brushed though ,,, although I cant imagine why any one with a bit of pride in their work would leave it looking like they have

 

[brightspark]

thought i wasnt any thing special

 

[tom2207]

Ask the welder for his certification , should have given you a copy for the file !

ask for a copy of his driving licence

better still his guide dog licence

 

[dieselsamurai]

Looks crap definately not done by someone certified to weld structurally , will probably hold but probably is not what you want in this location needs to be someone certified to weld in this situation and whoever did this did it clearly is very far from that !

 

[Morris]

Looks crap to me.

Don't beat around the bush man, say what you feel.

 

[6ply]

thought i wasnt any thing special

I remember telling a kid off once. Asked him if he thought he was special. He said his mum thought so.

Anyway, back to the welding... Whether the welds are structurally important or not, they look so bad I couldn't cope with them even if they were covered up. They've got to go!

 

[tom2207]

Don't beat around the bush man, say what you feel.

Ive seen better welds on a log splitter ,,

 

[6ply]

ask for a copy of his driving licence

better still his guide dog licence

 

[tom2207]

View attachment 522832

then let the building inspector decide ,,,,, if you dont have qualifications to say yes or no , then its just down to opinions ,,,,, a fair few folk here hace the ticket to say its good or bad , and back it up ,,, granted from pictures its still basically only an opinion ,,, but I know for a fact that some of the folk who have commented do have the qualifications to back up their opinions . But if the building inspector says its ok , get him to put it in writing , and sign it . ideally along with his qualifications to validate his opinion . [ for insurance purposes should anyone ask ]

 

[Richiew]

Last time we had a very similar enquiry on here, I think the Building Control weren't interested/bothered and the homeowner had the welding redone by someone competent.

 

[tom2207]

Last time we had a very similar enquiry on here, I think the Building Control weren't interested/bothered and the homeowner had the welding redone by someone competent.

that sounds familiar ,,,,
plenty of room to add a fillet plate or bolt a couple of angle joiners for piece of mind ,,, lots of options , but again your starting to mess with the engineers work so whos responsible ,,, whos house is it

 

[Farside]

Hi all,

I’m new here and would really appreciate some urgent advice regarding a residential weld on my project.

Our builder, who has been good up to now - brought in a welder today to join two steel beams (one supporting the inner leaf and one supporting the outer leaf) onto another steel using a welded plate. I’ve attached some photos along with the structural engineer’s details for reference.

Unfortunately, I wasn’t home when the welder arrived; otherwise, I would have asked questions on the spot. Now that I’ve seen it, I’m concerned about the quality of the work and its structural integrity - although I’m not a welding expert, something doesn’t look right to me. The Acrow props are still in place.

My main concerns are:

• The welder hasn’t ground the primer at all. I’m worried about how well a fillet weld can bond through primer, and whether porosity could be an issue now that the paint has been burnt off instead of properly cleaned.
• Some welds appear to be “sitting on top” of the steel rather than blending into it, which makes me question the fusion.
• There’s a huge amount of spatter. It almost looks like someone practising, which doesn’t fill me with confidence about the welder’s competence.
• The structural engineer specified 6mm fillet welds, but what’s been done looks very inconsistent.

I’ve sent the photos to both Building Control and the structural engineer, but Building Control have been pretty unhelpful so far in the project and seem reluctant to take responsibility for anything.

Before I push this further, I’d really value the opinion of people who actually know what they’re looking at. Do I have legitimate cause for concern here?

Thanks in advance - any guidance would be hugely appreciated

I would think your welder had at least five minute's practice in his shed before he turned up.

I'm carp at positional stick, but I've done a lot better than that, just fannying around.

 

[finyuk2005]

jesus!! look at all the arc strikes! thats a big mess!

 

[julianf]

Isn't this the whole point of people being "coded"?

Id have thought the specification would have called for someone with certs.

...which the person clearly doesn't have.

To the op -

Don't stress too much, you just need someone in to do it properly. Don't let the existing person back on it irrespective of the promises made.

 

[Erie Fred]

ask for a copy of his driving licence

better still his guide dog licence

Ask him if he used a helmet....

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Isn't this the whole point of people being "coded"?

Id have thought the specification would have called for someone with certs.

...which the person clearly doesn't have.

To the op -

Don't stress too much, you just need someone in to do it properly. Don't let the existing person back on it irrespective of the promises made.

It's more than just welder certification, the organisation delivering the works should also be providing a technical file that documents the specific welded assembly meets the UKCA marking requirements for fabricated steelwork meeting the BS EN 1090 standard.

Thing is, for the execution class used in typical residential structure, it's not even expensive...

There's a firm up the road from me who will sell you simple steels like this one, factory made with all the documentation, for scarcely more than I could buy the materials from a stockholder once drops, cutting and delivery are factored in.


However your average residential builder doesn't know this, won't have developed the contacts and rarely has enough experience of structural steelwork to understand there's a requirement to get the docs with the steel.

But they will know full well that they can handwave all manner of dubious works through building control because the inspectors are wholly inconsistent.

So unless the engineer or an architect has arranged the fabrication they're likely to flounder a bit, then just do whatever is cheap and convenient.


The builder doing this does however carry 100% of the legal liability, because they're automatically the principal contractor under CDM 2015, and inherit all client responsibilities when working for a residential client.

It's just that none of this ever gets enforced until someone gets badly hurt.