- Thread starter snowcat
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Gavthinfourth
pleb
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What pressure of boiler?
But you aren't looking at steam quality you are looking at water quality as you treat your boiler and feed water to control corrosion within the system. i looked after the boiler water on steam ships but low pressure stuff i'm a bit rusty on but you can get 1 shot do it all stuff which i was never a huge fan of. I prefered using the mix your own chemicals we used on the high pressure boilers for the low pressure stuff.
Basically you want to worry about your PH and salinity on low pressure, oxygen scavenging etc is a bit hard on low pressure as you probably have an open feed system.
But you aren't looking at steam quality you are looking at water quality as you treat your boiler and feed water to control corrosion within the system. i looked after the boiler water on steam ships but low pressure stuff i'm a bit rusty on but you can get 1 shot do it all stuff which i was never a huge fan of. I prefered using the mix your own chemicals we used on the high pressure boilers for the low pressure stuff.
Basically you want to worry about your PH and salinity on low pressure, oxygen scavenging etc is a bit hard on low pressure as you probably have an open feed system.
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Ok chaps you may be able to help out then, the story goes, I Have for some years made produced and fabbed, for someone who recycles cooking fat, for the German bio fuel market, before that we were in fact using a very similar system to heat pig swill (basically tanks with heat coils in) last summer he decides old boiler which has been (fineish) for ten years needs replacing, so as we did the fit (not the commission or the servicing) of the last boiler he asks a couple of us to do the fit.....
He bought another byworth boiler running at 7bar, which we fitted for him one Saturday nahh bother a couple of months back, as Byworths wanted £1500 to commission he got a chap from dumphies (the burner maker) to commission on the Sunday on the QT for cash, On the Monday I checked the plumbing finished putting the blow down pipe on, and commented that the top valve wasn't shutting properly, and was leaking, and so was the drain cock for the gauges, job done tho on my part...... Oh and to get the water softener serviced which he did......
Come Christmas I get a phone call, I know its not your thing but the boilers in trouble, could you take a look, so boilers running into Extra low water, check the probes and notice a slight oily deposit on em, clean probes, boiler still runs to low water but gets em out of trouble tell Byworths reopen after there two week!!!! Christmas shutdown (which in my mind is crap not to have some emergency cover), Boiler man rolls up today 3 weeks later!!!! and says its down to the water softener (despite being new) not working, and contamination siphoning back through the plant.....In which case its all down to the top valve not seating properly, there blaming the top valves trouble on steam quality tho it hasn't worked from day one......
IMHO he was a bit of an arrogant ****, but thats by the way, steams going for a test on Monday, that should tell what chemicals are needed to clean the boiler.....
Now that brings me to point two as you quit rightly deduce it is an open feed, that condenses to the tank, is very probable that heat coil if damaged could return crap to the open feed, so if this boiler that sensitive really its no use and is 15K waste of money..
with the old boiler we had zero problems like this in ten years despite valve failures and all sorts, it must have become contaminated at some point but never blinked.....
It appears to me Byworths are wriggling to get out of the warranty, Its a shame he did not have them do the initial commission, mind having met there boiler inspectors, I would have lay-ed money on them BS the top valve should have been that way.....
I'm going to put a disc valve inline for him on the main feed this should help, but keeping the feed tank 100% clean is going to be imposible.....
Help and advice would be appreciated, just so I'm ready to help him with the impending massive bill from Byworths....
Sorry about the war and peace BTW
He bought another byworth boiler running at 7bar, which we fitted for him one Saturday nahh bother a couple of months back, as Byworths wanted £1500 to commission he got a chap from dumphies (the burner maker) to commission on the Sunday on the QT for cash, On the Monday I checked the plumbing finished putting the blow down pipe on, and commented that the top valve wasn't shutting properly, and was leaking, and so was the drain cock for the gauges, job done tho on my part...... Oh and to get the water softener serviced which he did......
Come Christmas I get a phone call, I know its not your thing but the boilers in trouble, could you take a look, so boilers running into Extra low water, check the probes and notice a slight oily deposit on em, clean probes, boiler still runs to low water but gets em out of trouble tell Byworths reopen after there two week!!!! Christmas shutdown (which in my mind is crap not to have some emergency cover), Boiler man rolls up today 3 weeks later!!!! and says its down to the water softener (despite being new) not working, and contamination siphoning back through the plant.....In which case its all down to the top valve not seating properly, there blaming the top valves trouble on steam quality tho it hasn't worked from day one......
IMHO he was a bit of an arrogant ****, but thats by the way, steams going for a test on Monday, that should tell what chemicals are needed to clean the boiler.....
Now that brings me to point two as you quit rightly deduce it is an open feed, that condenses to the tank, is very probable that heat coil if damaged could return crap to the open feed, so if this boiler that sensitive really its no use and is 15K waste of money..
with the old boiler we had zero problems like this in ten years despite valve failures and all sorts, it must have become contaminated at some point but never blinked.....
It appears to me Byworths are wriggling to get out of the warranty, Its a shame he did not have them do the initial commission, mind having met there boiler inspectors, I would have lay-ed money on them BS the top valve should have been that way.....
I'm going to put a disc valve inline for him on the main feed this should help, but keeping the feed tank 100% clean is going to be imposible.....
Help and advice would be appreciated, just so I'm ready to help him with the impending massive bill from Byworths....
Sorry about the war and peace BTW
What do you mean by top valve? , is it a non return valve after the water feed pump to the boiler ? Do you not chemical dose the feed water anyway ?
i know we had a softener and chemical dosing on our feed tank ,
the boiler was producing steam to run an abattoir and fat rendering plant .... we only really had trouble when a chlorifier coil started to leak thus letting untreated water back into the condensate line .... big scale problem then , had to have a few boiler tubes replaced after the annual inspection .
IT is about 15 years ago since i worked on that boiler and plant so am a little out of touch with it now
so probably no help at all
cheers mike
i know we had a softener and chemical dosing on our feed tank ,
the boiler was producing steam to run an abattoir and fat rendering plant .... we only really had trouble when a chlorifier coil started to leak thus letting untreated water back into the condensate line .... big scale problem then , had to have a few boiler tubes replaced after the annual inspection .
IT is about 15 years ago since i worked on that boiler and plant so am a little out of touch with it now
so probably no help at all
cheers mike
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top valve, is just a gate type valve on the main steam feed, its only got non returns on the traps, tho I'm going to fit a non return after the gate valve, the top valve should be shut down at night thus stoping any return to that end.....
byworths reckon you should only dose on a single fill directly into the boiler, still don't see how this helps with crap going into the condense/cold fill tank, as i said there was never a problem tell the new boiler entered the equation.....
byworths reckon you should only dose on a single fill directly into the boiler, still don't see how this helps with crap going into the condense/cold fill tank, as i said there was never a problem tell the new boiler entered the equation.....
gavuk
artful-bodger
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Sorry snowy don't think i can help ,don't recall seeing a non return valve on the main steam line before ,but again never heard of boiler syphoning back in either.....our condense lines are gravity feed to a pump which pumps condense to the hotwell tank,make upwater is demineralisied and blowdowns are controlled by the boiler in auto, based on the solids content in the boiler,If our low water alarm is actuated hotwell feed pump is engaged to refill the boiler,if extra low level alarm is activated boiler locks out until enough water is fed back into boiler...water treatment is on hotwell side of bioler,,,,can't see why blowing down and refreshing boilerwater with treated water wouldn't improve the situation ......Sounds like not using byworth to commision could cost your customer dearly...and probably difficult to get any comeback off a guy who signed it off on a cash basis,,,,,,,,may be worth looking here spirax tutorials........please let us know the outcome ...Gav
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cheers Gav, my thoughts exactly on the commission, I think Byworths are going to have him over, there not in my experience the most helpful anyway........
the problem with the waterfill appears to be from too high core temperature due to poor water quality......
wish TBH I wasn't involved but you somehow get suckered don't you..... IL keep you posted when we/I get a result, cheers for the info anyhow......
the problem with the waterfill appears to be from too high core temperature due to poor water quality......
wish TBH I wasn't involved but you somehow get suckered don't you..... IL keep you posted when we/I get a result, cheers for the info anyhow......
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Gav,
we got the guy who did the original commission back, to sort the burner which wasn't running on Hi fi, down to a stuck solenoid, He was as bigger fan of the Byworths Guy as I was, and "had dealings with him" over a no. of years........He said siphoning back was rubbish very rare and only tends to happen when theres something to siphon from near the start of the line.... most likely and its exactly what I said when I first removed the probes, that one of the fitters drooped a plastic cap or something in there when it was built, happens all the time tho there never admit it......
He also said not to waste cash on loads of chemicals, steam quality on a system like that isn't going to be make or brake, the softener had a valve turned the wrong way so thats working fine after I switched it back on.......
we got the guy who did the original commission back, to sort the burner which wasn't running on Hi fi, down to a stuck solenoid, He was as bigger fan of the Byworths Guy as I was, and "had dealings with him" over a no. of years........He said siphoning back was rubbish very rare and only tends to happen when theres something to siphon from near the start of the line.... most likely and its exactly what I said when I first removed the probes, that one of the fitters drooped a plastic cap or something in there when it was built, happens all the time tho there never admit it......
He also said not to waste cash on loads of chemicals, steam quality on a system like that isn't going to be make or brake, the softener had a valve turned the wrong way so thats working fine after I switched it back on.......
gavuk
artful-bodger
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Hi Snowy,thought the syphoning back was strange,never heard of it .....certainly not on a system thats been running fine for years,i've never had any dealings with a new boiler ,,,,i'm glad to say ,,,,have assisted a few shutdown checks ,think ihave to do ours this year.....looking at ours today we have a softner and use "multitreat" straight into the hotwell,and they still have problems with the probes testing solids ,fortunatley not high and low water though............Glad to hear your sorted....Gav
