Spraying/Paint/Waterbased

[NorthYorksPaul]

On about spraying,I done a fair bit the past with an Apollo HVLP,like 20 years ago....with cellulose and also synthetic (used to call it coach enamel) did a few cars and landrover.......quite good but a bit orange peely at times.Now with all the enviromental isues cellulose is getting banned here but not in China Russia etc of course.....now its all going water based does anyone know anything about these and can they be used by DIY's.....I think drying times might be a problem at least allthough synthetics take ages to get tack free as well,anyone any ideas?....cheers.

 

[littlestwoo]

Hi,

See "Doh I bought a jeep" and read my post,

Steve

 

[BillJ]

I've had good DIY results with waterbased paint on my and friends' cars. The basecoat goes on nice and evenly but does take longer to "flash off" than acrylics. Not hours, though, except on a really cold night It's more pleasant to work with too from a breathing point of view. I use a 1K clear lacquer on top so I'm not messing with deadly 2K hardeners. I haven't used waterbased clearcoat and haven't even seen it for sale. The basecoat is not at all hard so I'm not sure how a waterbased lacquer would work.

Not all spray guns are suitable for waterbased paint, apparently. I use a £50 DeVillbiss Finishline HVLP gravity gun which specifically includes waterbased paints in its spec. Cleaning out the waterbased stuff is nice and easy too - with water, obviously. When using the same gun for basecoat and clear, I flush it with water before using the waterbased paint and flush it with thinners before using the lacquer, just to make sure I don't get water in the lacquer, etc.

As for orangepeel, I'm not good enough to avoid that on the clearcoat but some 2000-grit followed by a polishing compound gives a better-than-factory finish at the expense of a little bit of effort.

 

[andrewg1323]

Personally i wouldnt want to spray waterbased outside due to the long time it takes to dry.
Waterbased it typically dried by blowing air over it so ideally you want a nice dust free environment.
My experience is the waterbase coat goes on, looks crap and orange peeley but dries really quite nice

Still prefer 2 pack though!

 

[boombang]

It is still perfectly easy to get cellulose as a hobby sprayer - there are less sellers due to the smaller market but still readily available.

 

[NorthYorksPaul]

Hi guys,thanks for your replies...very helpfull,I shall have a go when the need arises....have to try the waterpaint and get some celly again as not sprayed for a few years so will need practise again...thanks again.

 

[Moseph]

There have been plans to phase out cellulose paints for many years now and they're still everywhere. Polyester basecoat with a 2k clear coat achieves an absolutely amazing finish and doesn't suffer any fade.

 

[lexi]

I was using celly today. Even with a Gerson mask and spraying outside in the calm conditions I had a buzzing sore head. I think the celly laqueur was the culprit.

Alex

 

[Moseph]

There used to be a guy near where I live that sprayed 2k in his shed with nothing more than one of those disposable paper filter masks.
Not sure what happened to him though...

 

[littlestwoo]

I heard a story about a 2K sprayers dog, it didn't make it.

Steve

 

[The Undertaker]

Shouldn't spray 2k without air fed, know a couple of painters who did for about 8/9 years. 1 can't paint anymore and the other has collapses every so often.
It's all about the cyanide that's in it, gets absorbed through mucus membranes, so even if your mask stops you breathing it in you'll still be absorbing it through your eyes! Oh yeah, and it's cumulative irreversable (sp) effect so you can't go to the quack and get it fixed! Not suitable for home spraying boys and girls.

 

[Drains]

What are 1k, 2k?

cos I don't know!

 

[Moseph]

Whilst any paint cures by evaporation, 2k also has a hardener in it that makes it go off quicker via a chemical reaction and causes a rigid interlocking bond. It's harder wearing too.

 

[Moseph]

Quite a useful leaflet produced by the Health and Safety Executive

www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg388.pdf

 

[migmag]

Good link that ....

You can buy 3m masks for 2pac paints there only about £8 quid.

 

[Moseph]

I've read and heard a lot of different opinions on those. They appear to reduce the level of isocyanates, rather than remove them completely. I'm not sure I'd trust my life to anything other than full air fed when spray painting, although I think they're probably okay for mixing 2k and brush painting with it.

 

[migmag]

A company as big as 3M isn't gona put there name to mask that doesnt work?????


tishhhhhh

 

[andrewg1323]

i tink the small masks are only designed for minimal exposure aint they?

 

[Moseph]

They are for limited exposure applications (as I previously detailed).

I fail to see any sentiment in my last post that the mask "doesn't work". 3M will happily put their name to a product which clearly states its limitations in the datasheet.

2k (especially in spray form) is dangerous stuff and I think it irresponsible to suggest otherwise. You don't have to dig very deep on the internet to find cases of severe health issues and even deaths as a result of the improper use of 2k paints.

 

[lexi]

Yeah it`s true guys. I have used it on a DIY basis but always outside in calm warm conditions with a Gerson mask and only on smallish panels. Even then the overspray is carried where it can lie in a neighbours garden and be dangerous.

A mate of mine had been sparaying it on a car in his commercial garage.....this was before air fed masks. We were out shooting on the hill next day and on top of Ben Vorlich after a sweaty climb. I noticed his neck and face were white and it was the white two pack which he had absorbed from day before coming out of his pores. it was even coming out on his back and stomach. Not as though celly is harmless mind . celly laquer contains lead

Alex