Spray welding set up advice required?

[Erie Fred]

When I got my Rtech 180 I was playing around with settings & managed to get it into spray transfer using 0.8 wire. Took me by surprise as there's a significant change in heat & noise!

Unfortunately I forgot to write down the settings & never found them again!

Yup, things get quiet, metal get's real fluid, and you glove catches fire......
....and if you don't get a move on, the sound of molten metal hitting the floor, and the hollow sound of a large hole
being formed as well.

 

[denlow60]

Yup, things get quiet, metal get's real fluid, and you glove catches fire......
....and if you don't get a move on, the sound of molten metal hitting the floor, and the hollow sound of a large hole
being formed as well.

you may need to tighten or loosen the rollers through which the wire passes.

 

[Memmeddu]

I'm the only one at work who welds in spray transfer.
Cause they don't know about, they think that mig welding is short circuit only and if it doesn't makes noise it's because you don't have enough wire feed speed
We use 82% argon 18% CO2 shielding gas mixture
I achieve to get spray arc using
1.2mm solid wire at 270ish amps and I believe 8 meters minutes (I don't remember right now perfectly and the welder might be off values) anyways I can weld in every position by tweaking the value staying around those values.
If I increase wire feed speed weld pool will sag and eventually fall to the ground while welding out of position.
Remember I'm using a very basic 300A Migatronic machine .
I've got the numbers , judging from the settings and whats written on the data plate .

 

[zzr1200]

Having read the answers above and answers in other threads.

The general forum advice seems to be for gas coverage for mag/mig machines, 5% for car bodywork/thin steel, 20% for heavy section, Argon if your welding aluminum/alloys.

Most members are DIY/Car types, that (shall we say) have access to the lower-end spec machines (dip transfer/possible spray) but are also investing/upgrading to mid-spec machines (possible pulse/spray/synergic).

As a DIY based forum, with members who are diy/semi-professional/professional and business owners.

I have various other questions on behalf of people like myself who are upgrading their welding plant and don't weld semi/professional, because this all could/does add to the possible cost of upgrading.
.............................................................................................................

1. There are various other mixes/percentages of gases available for mag/mig welding, alloys/steel/stainless steel due to process type/material, what are they/why and what effect does it have on the weld quality/process?

2. Should we have a fixed posted forum gas advice/usage list for reference available on the forum?

3. Mainly for me atm, for dip transfer 5% (thin) and 20%(heavy), but why 5% for Spray Transfer improved metal fluidity/arc force????

4. Why not use 5% for everything (dip/pulse/spray?) and does this percentage change depending on material thickness being spray welded???

A slightly confused........zzr........possibly another large bottle to buy/fill......

 

[denlow60]

I'm the only one at work who welds in spray transfer.
Cause they don't know about, they think that mig welding is short circuit only and if it doesn't makes noise it's because you don't have enough wire feed speed
We use 82% argon 18% CO2 shielding gas mixture
I achieve to get spray arc using
1.2mm solid wire at 270ish amps and I believe 8 meters minutes (I don't remember right now perfectly and the welder might be off values) anyways I can weld in every position by tweaking the value staying around those values.
If I increase wire feed speed weld pool will sag and eventually fall to the ground while welding out of position.
Remember I'm using a very basic 300A Migatronic machine .
I've got the numbers , judging from the settings and whats written on the data plate .

Hi,
You can weld very well with spray arc in position, but you must have experience. When welding vertical uphill, it is wise to weld in a short-circuit arc area because your welding pool will become too hot and then it will fall off and you will not get nice welds.

 

[Memmeddu]

Hi,
You can weld very well with spray arc in position, but you must have experience. When welding vertical uphill, it is wise to weld in a short-circuit arc area because your welding pool will become too hot and then it will fall off and you will not get nice welds.

Whenever happens to mig weld uphill I'll upload a picture, it's not a perfect science but I'm surely not great at it but I can produce a nice looking weld

 

[denlow60]

Main group

The letter codes and numbers used for the main groups are:

⎯ I: inert gases and inert gas mixtures;

⎯ M1, M2 and M3: oxidising mixtures containing oxygen and/or carbon dioxide;

⎯ C: highly oxidising gas and highly oxidising mixtures;

⎯ R: reducing gas mixtures;

⎯ N: low reactive gas or reducing gas mixtures, containing nitrogen;

⎯ O: oxygen;

⎯ Z: gas mixtures containing components not listed or mixtures outside the composition ranges listed in Table 2.



General

Gases and gas mixtures are designated by the classification (see 5.1) and the symbols of their chemical

components as below, followed by the corresponding nominal composition in volume percent:

⎯ Ar: argon

⎯ C: carbon dioxide

⎯ H: hydrogen

⎯ N: nitrogen

⎯ O: oxygen

⎯ He: helium

 

[zzr1200]

View attachment 446404

Main group

The letter codes and numbers used for the main groups are:

⎯ I: inert gases and inert gas mixtures;

⎯ M1, M2 and M3: oxidising mixtures containing oxygen and/or carbon dioxide;

⎯ C: highly oxidising gas and highly oxidising mixtures;

⎯ R: reducing gas mixtures;

⎯ N: low reactive gas or reducing gas mixtures, containing nitrogen;

⎯ O: oxygen;

⎯ Z: gas mixtures containing components not listed or mixtures outside the composition ranges listed in Table 2.



General

Gases and gas mixtures are designated by the classification (see 5.1) and the symbols of their chemical

components as below, followed by the corresponding nominal composition in volume percent:

⎯ Ar: argon

⎯ C: carbon dioxide

⎯ H: hydrogen

⎯ N: nitrogen

⎯ O: oxygen

⎯ He: helium

View attachment 446405

Not quite what I had in mind, more along the lines of :-


Mag/Mig Gas List

Car body work/thin steel (dip transfer) >4mm...........Ar/Co2 5%
Steel (dip transfer) above 4mm>......................................Ar/Co2 20%
Steel (spray transfer) above 10mm (???).........................Ar/Co2 5% (any other ratios used as standard and why?)..........(Memmeddu:-We use 82% argon 18% CO2 shielding gas mixture, due to availability locally???)
Steel in cold temps......................................Ar/He ?% (or this this only used for TIG welding?)
Aluminium/Alloys.///////...........................Pure Argon
Stainless Steel................................................Ar/???


We all read things on the forum sometimes they stick, but we can't always find them to reference them again..................
Can you spray transfer with Co2??????.....

 

[denlow60]

Can you spray transfer with Co2??????.....

no that does not work

 

[denlow60]

Mag/Mig Gas List

Car body work/thin steel (dip transfer) >4mm...........Ar/Co2 5%
Steel (dip transfer) above 4mm>......................................Ar/Co2 20%
Steel (spray transfer) above 10mm (???).........................Ar/Co2 5% (any other ratios used as standard and why?)..........(@Memmeddu:-We use 82% argon 18% CO2 shielding gas mixture, due to availability locally???)
Steel in cold temps......................................Ar/He ?% (or this this only used for TIG welding?)
Aluminium/Alloys.///////...........................Pure Argon
Stainless Steel................................................Ar/???

95/5 can be used, but not common but is used for stainless steel, but mixtures of 85/15, 80/20, 75/25, 82/18 are all good for welding from 0.6 mm plate to infinite thickness. the higher the Co2 value, the better it deals with rust.
you must stay in M2 in table 2.

Steel in cold temps......................................Ar/He ?% (or this this only used for TIG welding?). no, this is not correct.
Americans call this welding process MIG which means
metal inert gas.
we call it MIG/MAG in Europe.
MAG means metal active gas
With MIG you can weld aluminum and other precious metals, using argon or a mixture of argon and helium.
With MAG welding processes you can weld steel and stainless steel.
Stainless steel is most often welded with a mixture of 98/2 to 10% CO2.

Aluminium/Alloys.///////...........................Pure Argon
That is correct, but you can also weld with a mixture of Argon and Helium because these are also inert gases. for TIG and MIG welding.

 

[PhillipM]

Surprised there's much issue with spray with 0.8mm wire - I've run in spray even on 0.6mm before and never really noticed any problem with gouging?

 

[Erie Fred]

www.weldreality.com

 

[Merkava_4]

These guys have a pretty good gas chart.

 

[paulo1974]

What is dip transfer? i thought that in mig(no pulse) had only 3 modes short circuit, globular and spray transfer!

 

[denlow60]

What is dip transfer? i thought that in mig(no pulse) had only 3 modes short circuit, globular and spray transfer!

dip transfer is the same as short circuiting transfer

ISO 15614-1-2018 1A 2021
8.5.2.3.1 General
For solid and metal cored wires, the qualification using short circuiting transfer qualifies only short
circuiting transfer. Qualification using spray, pulse or globular transfer qualifies spray, pulse and
globular transfer.

 

[paulo1974]

Ok thanks